013 Hustling, Activism, and Choosing Yourself with Rachel Cargle

For successful entrepreneurs who also care deeply about social issues, it can often feel like there’s a contradiction between building personal wealth and achieving wider socioeconomic equality in society. The tension between these two things has become very familiar to today’s guest, activist, speaker, and entrepreneur Rachel Cargle.

Rachel Cargle has been an entrepreneur since her early twenties, but her platform really took off about a year ago when a picture of her at the Women’s March went viral. Now she travels around the country with her lecture series Unpacking White Feminism, teaches and writes about racism, blackness, and feminism, and builds businesses on the side. And she’s studying anthropology at Columbia. She is working. 

This conversation with Rachel is full of juicy stuff about entrepreneurship, building wealth, and using money to serve others. We talk about why she became an entrepreneur, when she learned she could make bank, and how Rachel has used strategic hires to not only capitalize on where she’s at now, but ensure she will have work and money for the long term. And we also discuss some of the anxiety that can come up when you become a successful entrepreneur after growing up poor, and how she takes care of herself and other black women.

Homework time: Rachel talks about how she chose herself and stepped into the role of lecturer, rather than waiting for someone else to bestow this role upon her. I want you to think about your biggest dreams (What do I want to be when I grow up?) and then journal about how you can start stepping into that role today.

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What You’ll Learn from this Episode:

  • How Rachel turned her childhood dream of being a teacher into a financially successful and socially impactful platform.
  • How her trajectory – from leaving college and getting married at 21, to getting divorced at 24 and moving to DC – helped turn Rachel into a self-empowered entrepreneur.
  • The business model Rachel used to make money while she wasn’t working, and how she’s adapted it now that she has more resources.
  • How she became a well-paid lecturer by choosing herself and stepping into her power (rather than waiting for someone to choose her).
  • Why Rachel wants to use her business and her work to help improve access to financial resources for other black women.
  • How she has adjusted to the big monetary and lifestyle changes that she’s experienced over the past year.
  • Rachel’s thoughts on intersectional feminism today, its history, and its future.

Listen to the Full Episode:

Featured on the Show:

And then there were people who said all of those. There were people who said, “Rachel, you’re just a student. Who do you think you are, thinking that you’re teaching something?” And I did get all of that feedback but I just showed up. And what is it, three weeks ago now I’ve lectured at Harvard, Yale, Berkley. I’ve been invited to teach in these spaces, so like, I’ll see you there bitch. Until you’ve done everything I’m trying to do, I literally don’t take you seriously.

Welcome to The Million Dollar Badass Podcast. I’m your host, Rachel Rodgers, wife, mother to four children, lover of Beyoncé, coffee drinker, and afro wearer, and I just happen to be the CEO of a seven-figure business. I am on a mission to help every woman I meet become a millionaire. If you want to make more money, you are in the right place. Let’s get it going.

Well hello friends. What an exciting episode we have for you today. Today I am talking to activist, writer, and lecturer Rachel Cargle. Rachel has a very interesting story. she actually went viral just last year and based on that, just happening to have a picture from the women’s march last year go viral, she decided to create a lecture series called Unpacking White Feminism.

And so what she is doing right now is lecturing all over the country, speaking at Yale and Harvard and all of these amazing places where she is talking about the intersection of race and womanhood. She has a social media platform of over 40,000 people following her and she is guiding conversations and encouraging critical discourse about the topics of race and feminism.

And so she’s got a really interesting story about how she became an entrepreneur. This is not her first venture. So her first business was very interesting, how she came into it, completely offline. So we talk about that, we talk about what it means to be a feminist today, we talk about her journey from growing up poor and becoming a very wealthy woman entrepreneur and what that experience has been like. We talk about the seemingly contradictory fight for socioeconomic justice and personal wealth creation and how sometimes that can feel incongruous. So we talk about that and we dig into that topic.

We also talk about how Rachel chose herself and what that looked like, and I think this is a really important thing for you to pick out and I really am excited for you guys to hear about how she didn’t wait to have certifications and certain degrees. She just put herself out there and offered up her services and people were interested, obviously. She’s made a ton of money, has a huge following. I’m really, really excited for you to hear her story, to hear her perspective on money, and just to hear her non-traditional way of how she built her current business, and we also talk about some social issues as well.

So this one is really juicy. Dig in. enjoy, get your cup of tea, it’s going to be a really good one. So here is my interview with the amazing Rachel Cargle.

Rachel R: I always like to start with something personal, so maybe we’ll just start by talking about your day and what you experienced yesterday. Because I feel like it’s fun to kind of drop us in the middle of like, what’s going on right now for you, like a day in the life.

Rachel C: Well yesterday, I don’t know if I would call it a day in the life but it definitely was a day.

Rachel R: Let’s talk about that.

Rachel C: Well, I had this really cool lecture I did at the Jane Hotel in the city and I just really am so grateful that I get to do my work publicly, to do this academic lecturing publicly because it means that I get to just do it in really cool places that aren’t always in the realm of academia but we’re still doing critical work in fun ways. And so we were in the ballroom at the Jane Hotel. There were like, velvet couches set up and chairs and it was just a really cool space.

And I’ve been traveling so much I haven’t really got to do my lecture in New York so it was really cool to be home, have a lot of friends show up and support and just see – everyone’s usually friendly but just to see familiar faces in the audience. So I had this lecture event and it was an open bar after and there was appetizers and it was just really, really cool, and I’m super grateful to be able to exist in such a unique way and doing work that means so much to me.

So I did that the night before and then the next morning I had a photo shoot with a brand. I’m a terrible person for not knowing the brand off the top of my head. Hold please, I’m literally looking it up because I don’t want to be a terrible person. It is called Lafayette 148.

Rachel R: Oh yeah.

Rachel C: And I’m part of a campaign with them. I was invited to be part of a women’s history month campaign with them and so I went and did a photo shoot in Soho and it was just – they had a driver pick me up and it was so lux and I’m like, sure yeah, I’ll be at the Jane Hotel, come pick me up and I’ll go to do the shoot.

Rachel R: I love it.

Rachel C: So it was great, it was really fun. The clothes were lovely and beautiful. The shoot, everyone was so encouraging and I had a ton of fun and then I went to – this is so funny because this is totally not a day in the life but it was the day. And then I went to AIRE Spa in Tribeca if you’ve ever been…

Rachel R: I don’t think I have actually.

Rachel C: Oh man, it is one of my favorite places in the city and yeah, it’s called AIRE, Ancient Greek Baths…

Rachel R: Oh yes, I know exactly what you’re talking about. I haven’t been there but my sister has gone and she’s tried to get me to go.

Rachel C: It’s one of my favorite things to do in the city and so right after the shoot I went to AIRE and then I went to Two Hands, which is a delicious Australian restaurant in Tribeca and then I went home for a little bit. I went home to Brooklyn and then I drove back into the city for a storytelling event with HBO and The Wing and it was like, a really fun storytelling night with some incredible women and we got to have drinks and all this stuff. And then someone took me out to dinner to Eataly and they opened the new restaurant on the rooftop. So that was my day yesterday but I have to put out the disclaimer that that is not a normal day for me but it was a lovely day.

Rachel R: Yes, that is a pretty epic 24 hours. I love it. I love it, and I think it’s so true that it’s interesting, the thing is that’s the stuff that people see. That’s the stuff people will see on Instagram and they won’t see us get up at 5am to work on a presentation we have to do or to catch planes or all the other things that come with being a woman who is creating a successful career and creating wealth in her life. There’s a lot of hustle as well even though there’s also a lot of fun.

So you get to experience a little bit of both, but I’ve definitely had those moments where I was even just describing my day to somebody or telling somebody something about my life and in the middle of my sentence I’m like, who even am I?

Rachel C: I say that all the time. I say who am I at least once a day at least.

Rachel R: Because it’s like, are you serious right now?

Rachel C: At least.

Rachel R: It is so funny because you know, but the beauty of it is I mean, what that really means honestly for two little Rachels, little girl Rachels is that dreams do come true. That’s really what it means.

Rachel C: I totally agree. It was really funny. I was at The Wing working and a few people who were followers of mine came up and they just were introducing themselves and there was a girl sitting next to me and she goes, “I’m sorry but I have to ask, who are you?” And I was like, I literally have no idea.

Rachel R: I love it. Oh my gosh, seriously, I know. It’s amazing. I love it, I love it. Okay, so let’s go back. So now that we know, we’ve fast forwarded to this moment, your last 24 hours, let’s go back to little Rachel in Ohio. What did you want to be when you grew up? What did you think when you were a little girl?

Rachel C: I just had this conversation just a few days ago. I always wanted to be a teacher. I really loved the idea of – this is going to sound so crazy, but when I was little, I really loved the idea of creating curriculum. Like, building knowledge spaces, and I remember being very little and lining up my baby dolls and my little sister and lining every one up. And my mom would – because I would ask my mom, my mom would print me out blank lesson plans. I would write in the lesson plans for the week.

And so I was out there seven years old, creating syllabi for my teddy bears and I would choose what books we were going to read and what lessons we were going to do. And so I think I really always loved the – just the landscape of learning and it was always really fun to me, both being a student and a teacher and at this very moment, I’m both of those things and I absolutely adore it.

Rachel R: Yeah, that is amazing. You are totally doing exactly what you wanted to do, which I love. I love that. That’s pretty rare. Usually – well that’s actually not true. I think there’s always some semblance of the thing that we wanted when we were kids that we’re still doing it. I wanted to be a lawyer from when I was eight years old so I became that and then I was like, okay we’re going to pivot.

Rachel C: I think I’m definitely – I think when I was little I probably would have thought I wanted to be in a classroom with fourth graders or something like that, but I definitely have pivoted to the expectations of adult Rachel now.

Rachel R: Yes, exactly. And did you have siblings growing up?

Rachel C: I do. I’m actually the baby. When I refer to my little sister she was just someone who would come and stay with us for a while, but I’m the baby. I have two older sisters who – they were almost teenagers when I was born. I was a little accident baby Rachel and my dad seduced my mom and here I am. Yeah, I have two older sisters.

Rachel R: That’s so funny. Pretty much all my children are by accident. I’m not great at the family planning apparently. But happy accidents. Very happy accidents. Okay, so you wanted to be a teacher and then did you study that in college? Did you go to college? What was the trajectory like from there?

Rachel C: Well, something I realized about myself was at every age that I was, I wanted to serve that community, like the age that I was at. And so I was always really – I was always just a very introspective child and so as I continued to grow I would be like okay, what’s a concern to us, to me now, what little black girls in general look like.

So I remember when I hit puberty and just really reading and pouring over books about that and saying like, “Mom, I think we should tell people about this. More people need to know.” And so as I was growing up, I just was really introspective and when I first went to college I was studying social work because I just still wanted to be in a service capacity. I didn’t go right to teaching. And I left school after my sophomore year so I still haven’t graduated. I’m currently studying anthropology now but I’m teaching – I’m learning right now with an intention to be able to teach from a space of experience.

I’m really studying anthropology to learn how to do the research to teach on things, but I think teaching is my ultimate goal still. And just this very interesting intersection of social media and then going to the university that I’m at and kind of showing up in the ways that I am, I’m kind of just doing exactly what I was doing when I was little, and it’s really cool to see these threads of myself continue into today.

Rachel R: Yes, awesome. So did you start college and then take a break?

Rachel C: Yeah, I started college right out of high school and then I got married and I was married for three years and then I was like, I don’t want to do this anymore. He was a really great person, there was nothing particularly wrong with our marriage. He made a ton of money, I think we were both 21 and he was making six figures and he built me a house and I got to design it and we were driving BMWs and living…

Rachel R: Wow, that is a pretty exciting marital life for a 21 year old.

Rachel C: Yeah, it was really great and I was like, this isn’t what I want. This isn’t who I am and I didn’t have to work, and it was just the ideal for everyone around me who was looking at it and they were like – my ex-husband was very kind. He’s still alive, he’s still very kind and very responsible and he was just a really great person, but something in me knew that that wasn’t where I was supposed to be.

And so I left that marriage and I’m super grateful to be on the other side of it because now I know, I know what it was that my gut was telling me and I’m super grateful that I listened to it, but yeah, that’s why I left. We got married and then I just started going back to school again last year.

Rachel R: Wow, I love it. I also took a break from college to work in DC because I did an internship for Hillary Clinton on the hill and then I was offered a job at a lobbying firm and I was like, well the point of going to college is to get a job and now I have a job doing something I’m really interested in, so let me just take a break from school. And I did that, and then I learned I hated all those people and needed to go back to school so I could do something totally different.

So I was just curious because that’s a parallel for me too, having left college. But I also think too that I think about who I was in relationship with in my early 20s and it was not someone that I needed to be with for the rest of my life. I think sometimes it’s hard to make a long-term decision at that age because we’re still becoming. And it’s not like we don’t stop becoming, we don’t stop learning and growing, but I think you just know more about those parts of you that are non-negotiable that probably aren’t going to change.

You are kind of at your core who you are. Of course, your career can change and what you like can change and who your friends are can change but I think there are some core values that kind of probably stick once you’re in your mid-20s.

Rachel C: Yeah, I mean, I always think back to younger Rachel of that time and I just am so proud of her for making the decision that was so hard because I remember when we divorced I was like, everyone’s going to think I’m crazy. He has given me everything that every woman wants, the security and the luxury, but I just remember being out walking my dog thinking I don’t want this, regardless of how lux and plush it seemed and how thinking after how happy I was in my little one bedroom shoebox in New York City, and it’s just such a cool feeling to have trusted myself and to have built that trust in myself.

I say now that I’ve had the experience of that type of confidence and bravery and trust is a muscle that you have to continuously build and work and so that was a huge workout of my courage and me trusting myself. So now I just have this deep trust when my gut tells me something and it serves me over time.

Rachel R: And that’s the type of thing I feel like that – it’s almost like it prepared you for where you’re at now. And I agree, I do think it’s totally brave to do something that when all your peers around you are like, you’re out of your freaking mind. It was the same thing. I’ve experienced that as well and I think probably every entrepreneur, everybody who creates their own career and doesn’t work for anyone in particular, every entrepreneur deals with family members and friends who are like, you have everything, why are you giving it up to go start something so uncertain, and it’s like, because I have to.

Rachel C: Right, have to. That’s the key. You literally have to.

Rachel R: Exactly. Like, I literally must. Okay, so you land in New York City and what happens next?

Rachel C: I actually went to Washington DC first. I went to DC and I was in DC for three years and you know, I always tell this story that I went from living with my mother to living – from mother to college dorms to a husband so I literally had never taken care of myself. Like, never. And so when I moved to DC, I was so excited to see what I was capable of. I was just super hyped like Rachel, what are you about to do bitch? I was so excited to see what I could do on my own. I just had this ambition more than fear.

And so I moved to DC and I started babysitting, and that kind of changed everything in the sense of I think I’m an entrepreneur at my core and it kind of gave me – it kind of put me in this like, hunger games space of like, either going to do it or you’re not or you’re going to fail or you’re going to have to go back home with your mom and you’re definitely not going back to Akron, Ohio, so figure it out.

And so I was kind of – it put me in this space of really pushing me to figure out what I was capable of and so what happened was I started babysitting and I started – I figured out – I always say I figured out the babysitting game. It’s such an interesting thing in bigger cities. What it feels and looks like and what platforms you use and how much money you ask for and how you interact with the parents. And so I figured that out and what I ended up doing was I just started babysitting for all these families and as soon as I would get two or three request for one weekend, I would just tell my friends like hey, there’s this family that wants you to babysit for them. They’ll pay me and I’ll pay you and I’ll take a cut for getting you the job.

Rachel R: I love it. You basically started a nanny agency.

Rachel C: Yeah, I basically started a nanny agency. A black market babysitting. And at one point I had a roster of 10 girls who I was calling and we had families who were always asking me who they could use and they trusted the sitters that I was sending and I would interview them. As soon as I got like, bit by the bug of entrepreneurship, I was like, this is the best thing ever. It was the best, and I really just loved making my own money.

I remember the first time – because one thing that me and my ex-husband used to always – I would feel so bad about because I would get a traffic ticket and since I didn’t have a job I would have to be like hey, just so you know, here’s this – it was like a weird parent thing. Like hi, I got a ticket, can you pay for it and please don’t yell at me.

And I remember the first time I got pulled over when I was single and I was making money and I was like, please give me this ticket because I’m going to write you a check. So excited to get a traffic ticket because I could pay for it by myself. It was just – when I moved to DC, it was just this complete breaking open of my mind and my heart of what I could do for myself. And also the incredible opportunity to pay other women, to say like, hey I’m going to make you money, I’m really excited about it and I have all these opportunities for you and it really made me passionate about just being in this special position to get other women on to cash and I loved it.

And so that kind of is what changed everything and it’s what catapulted me with the courage I had to move to New York City where I continue to push entrepreneurship and business ideas, some that failed, some that kind of stuck, but it was ultimately kind of the undercurrent of power that I needed to get into a city like New York as a young woman and kind of get the foundation of my career.

Rachel R: Yeah, you had to sort of stress your autonomy muscle and I love that and I think what I love about what you just said is that you really celebrate the joy of being free. And I think not enough women, like we all just get so obsessed about the fear of leaving a men, leaving the shelter of something safe, leaving a career because it’s safe. We all focus so much on the fear when there is true joy. Like, I have to say I have some of my best days when things are not going perfectly, we’re not necessarily making the most money on that particular day or particular month, but those sometimes are the best days and it’s just because – I don’t know.

For me, same thing, my whole team is women so it’s working with women, creating opportunities for women, teaching women how to build wealth. I love everything about it, even if I got to fire somebody and we got to pay this enormous tax bill we weren’t expecting or whatever the hell. It’s like I’m okay with all of that if I get to keep doing this.

Rachel C: I totally agree.

Rachel R: Yes, I love that and I love that you had your little nanny agency going. That is so badass I have to tell you because I just love the hustle and the okay, I’m going to make it work, I’m going to figure it out, and this is going to happen.

Rachel C: And I was making bank like in DC and New York, you make a lot of money babysitting and it was so hard for me. I don’t know if hard is the word, but it was a very interesting space for me because at the time I was 23, moving to a big city and I was meeting up with my friends who were now in grad school or graduating grad school so they were getting “real jobs” and I was out here babysitting but I was doing well for myself and I loved the space of creativity and I loved, like you said, the hustle of it of figuring it out and making it happen.

And so I had to kind of get over the self-conscious hump of I’m just babysitting, but it’s like no, I’m building an entire ecosystem around supporting women, supporting the mothers who…

Rachel R: Who need it, trust me.

Rachel C: The women who are able to make money through my agency, and then also me like, pushing myself to the next level. So it was good, I loved it. I miss it. I don’t miss babysitting. I miss that era of hustle. It was good.

Rachel R: Yes, well you’re in a new era of hustle.

Rachel C: I’m in a new era.

Rachel R: Hustle is still there. So when did you decide that you would be a woman who makes bank? Do you feel like it was in that period when you were building this agency? What do you think? When did that shift happen for you?

Rachel C: It was in that period where I realized I could do it, where not only did I realize I could do it but I realized other people couldn’t.

Rachel R: Love it.

Rachel C: I realized it was something that felt so natural to me and I super super appreciate that because it was so weird and I can imagine you get these questions all the time also Rachel where people will be like, how did you do that, how did you figure it out? And it’s like, I literally just did it. I am not a special person, there’s nothing about me. I have no magical powers. I am not a genius; my IQ is normal as fuck. I just did it. And so it gave me this confidence of like, maybe this is what I’m supposed to be doing because in my mind, it’s so simple but to everyone else this seems like rocket science so I’m guessing that this is who I am, this is what I do.

Rachel R: Exactly, and that’s it. It’s just that you just do it and a lot of times, trust me, a lot of my coaching, my clients are disappointed in my answers because it sounds like work and I’m like, yeah, it kind of is.

Rachel C: Yeah, you just have to show up and get it done. I was sitting and having coffee with someone recently explaining to them this new business model that I’m working on and they’re like, “Wow Rachel, you literally think in flow charts.” And I was like, wow, I think I do. I was just talking and creating charts as I was saying it and I literally just spoke the entire business model without really doing much other calculations. And it was like, wow I’m so grateful that I have that in me and I’m super grateful that I’m able to kind of show up in this way, but it’s really just sitting down and doing the work and thinking critically and being creative. And everyone has the capability to do it but then I learned that everyone doesn’t do it, so that was kind of when I decided I got the juice here so I’m just going to keep it going.

Rachel R: Yes, I got the juice. I love it. That belongs on a t-shirt. So good. I also think that there’s something really special about realizing that you can make money when you’re not working. So the moment that you figured out that other women could be doing the work and that you can get a cut and it benefits you and it benefits them, it’s a complete win-win. It’s like, oh shit, it blows up your mind.

Rachel C: I remember the first time I realized that because I remember – that’s very funny. I was at a bar in DC and I was with my friends and I remember I had three babysitters out working while I was out at the bar with my friends and I was like, I just want you guys to know I’m making $15 an hour right now. I remember telling them. At this moment, with rosé in my hand, other women are making money and I’m making $5 of off all of their dollars.

Rachel R: I love it.

Rachel C: It was crazy to me and I was like, everyone’s winning, you guys, let’s get another drink.

Rachel R: Pour around round. That is the best. I mean, that totally is how I felt. That, for me when I created Small Business Bodyguard, which is my first digital product. And I remember people just started buying it and even after the launch, the initial launch which was successful, but then just on a regular day I’d be at the park with my kids and I check my phone and it’s like boom, I just made $1100 while playing with my daughter. How amazing? It’s addictive. Once you figure that out, you’re like oh hell no.

Rachel C: And it’s like, other people are benefitting from it. It’s not like it’s just a random product or something. You were offering meaningful, meaningful things to people with which you were selling. It’s just wild to think that we can be meaningful and successful at the same time and feel good about it.

Rachel R: Yes, oh my god, so beautiful. I love it. Okay, so tell us a little bit about your business model, if you’re willing. You have a bit of an untraditional path to entrepreneurship. Well, not necessarily, but I think this phase of it is a little bit untraditional. So tell us a little bit about that, or maybe eve if it’s not your current business model, kind of what happened from the nanny agency to landing in New York to holy shit, I’m a well known public activist.

Rachel C: Yeah, that’s exactly how it sounds when I describe it. So basically, after I started the nanny business, I had all these ideas about how I could replicate that same thing with different services. And so I tried it with a virtual assistant service and I tried it in a couple of other ways and it didn’t work out exactly as I would have wanted it to. Not out of the idea and not out of my capability but resources. I just didn’t have the resources to be able to show up and make it happen at the large scale that I had been envisioning it.

And so basically when I moved to New York I was still nannying because that was kind of like, my jam at the time and it was what was giving me enough money to live in New York City. And I was still kind of exploring the New York City entrepreneurial space, which I hate so much now. I’ll never dip into that again. But with this…

Rachel R: I love it. Wait, we’re going to have to come back to that.

Rachel C: You know, all of the pitch contests and the women’s breakfast and the – I’m over it. And so I kind of – I got really frustrated with that even though I still loved the idea of having companies and being able to do this work. And so I kind of let it go because it wasn’t feeling the way that I knew that I wanted to feel within this space and I started – I applied to Columbia, I got into Columbia, and you can’t not go to Columbia if they let you in.

I was like okay, so I started at school and it was around that time that I had a photo go viral from the women’s march and that kind of kicked off me having a voice within the movement of just at this intersection of race and womanhood. And I was going to school for anthropology so there was a lot of work that I was reading and writing anyway.

And so I just kind of decided to learn out loud on my platform and to teach as I was learning and continue to engage people in that conversation. And so I just started to build a platform and you knew me before all of this happened. It was last June I decided to do my first lecture, which basically what happened was that after the photo went viral, it really held up a mirror to me to ask myself, what do you understand and believe about this intersection of your – about being a black woman within the feminist movement. What is the feminist movement, how has it hurt you, how has it helped you and where are we at with it.

And I kind of just decided to cultivate my gifts of writing and speaking to bring this conversation to the forefront now that kind of my face was completely plastered to this movement and how I was showing up in it. And so I decided to do a lecture, and this is what I love to teach to people who are kind of asking about how to do this work. I literally – Rachel, I could have called it anything. I could have called it a workshop, I could have called it a salon, I could have called it anything.

But I happen to call it a lecture because I have a goal of being a professor that I want to continue to teach and people took me very seriously to that. And so I’ve been lecturing on campuses. I’m at Penn State right now so I’m lecturing later this evening. And so I decided to kind of step into a role that I wasn’t necessarily – I wasn’t approved to be. I did it.

Rachel R: Qualified in the traditional sense.

Rachel C: I literally qualified myself when I said I’m about to teach y’all and I’m about to call it a lecture and you’re going to pay for it to listen to my intellect and you’re going to learn. And so that’s what I did and I remember that first lecture I think I made 10K from the people who were willing to come in and listen to my voice about this wildly important, wildly necessary topic.

And when I realized that I could use these innate skills that I have of speaking and writing in order to really show up for things that matter to me like my race and my womanhood, it kind of created this tornado of possibility of my life where I was making the money to live in the city that I want to live and then having this kind of excess money to really continue on the businesses that I wasn’t able to do because I didn’t have the resources.

So what happened was after that first lecture when I made that first 10K, which was like more money than I had ever had at one time, I immediately hired a business manager. And I immediately put someone on retainer and he came in and I was like, this is what I want, this is the dream I have, this is how I want my businesses set up. And so that’s kind of where I am with my companies. It was like everything was kind of on standstill for a little but until I could get my footing in the city and get my footing financially and then the second I did I just got this whirlwind of this like, incredible opportunity to both do the academic and activist work I’m doing while having the resources to build the businesses that I had…

For example, I’m launching something later in the year and I built the website for it three years ago. I built the website, I knew I wanted to do it, I knew it would be meaningful but I just didn’t have the resources and now I have everything I could possibly need to make it happen and I’m so excited for it to launch. So it’s not like I’m coming out with anything new to me, it’s just I’m finally able to do the stuff that I want to do so all that to say, my company is called The Loveland Group and it’s basically an umbrella company holding all of these ideas and all these businesses I’ve been dreaming about for the last seven, eight years. So we’re just launching little things as they flesh out from what my ideas were before. So The Loveland Group is my umbrella company and we have little things coming out very, very soon.

Rachel R: First of all, you said so much good shit there. I literally – seriously, I was just like taking notes because there’s so much to unpack there. First of all, the fact that you called it a lecture and that you qualified yourself. I just want to take my shoe off and fucking throw it, seriously. Because please ladies, hear this. Qualify your motherfucking self. You don’t need nobody to approve of you, to choose you, to say yeah, it’s okay. No, you don’t need that. Just fucking do it. I love that. I’m obsessed with that, I want to roll around in it.

That makes me so happy. And it just goes to show when you choose yourself, there is a putting yourself out there. You have to risk your ego because it’s totally possible that that room could’ve been empty. It’s possible people could have been like, who the fuck is she. It’s possible that people could have said no I’m not going to pay that to come hear you speak.

Rachel C: And they did. There were people who said all of those. There were people who said, “Rachel, you’re just a student. Who do you think you are, thinking that you’re teaching something?” And I did get all of that feedback but I just showed up.

Rachel R: But then you told them to kiss your black ass.

Rachel C: And I showed up and what is it, three weeks ago now I’ve lectured at Harvard, Yale, Berkley. I’ve been invited to teach in these spaces, so like, I’ll see you there bitch. Until you’ve done everything I’m trying to do, I literally don’t take you seriously.

Rachel R: Yes, that is correct. Because yes, there are all kinds of naysayers to tell us who we are, what we can do. Not interested. You aint down here in the arena with me and yes, I’m going to take that risk and you know what, if you don’t like it, don’t like it, but these people over here, they like it and they paying for it, so bye.

Oh my god, obsessed. But the other thing, first of all, so that’s number one you chose yourself and you’re like fuck that, put myself out there, lecturer, like it or love it. And then number two, you hired a business manager. Okay now, I got to throw my other shoe because that is just so fucking smart. Literally, I have to – you know what I have to do? I have to literally pull my clients hair to get them to hire some help.

Rachel C: I couldn’t have done it. I knew that my writing and speaking career was kicking off and I was like, but this is important to me. Everyone on Instagram could hate me tomorrow. I literally could have zero – Instagram could implode tomorrow and I still need to survive. I had to.

Rachel R: Yes, and when you recognize you have something going like okay, how are we going to play the long game here? And that’s just super smart, and it’s all about multiplying yourself, which is exactly what you did with the nanny agency and then you did it here. Like okay, I can’t be in two places at one time and I’m the one that has to do the speaking and the writing so somebody else can run the business…

Rachel C: The speaking and the writing is what I really love right now.

Rachel R: Yes, exactly right. It’s like I’m great at it, I love it, let’s outsource the other things.

Rachel C: Exactly.

Rachel R: Super smart. Love it, love it. And then the third thing that I wanted to point out is you talked about resources, and I think that that is such an important conversation and I think we need to acknowledge that for black women especially, but women of color in general and women in general, resources are very slim. When you go to a bank and say I would like to get a bank loan so that I can invest that money into my business that I want to start, they’re like, show us proof of what you’ve done. You’ve got to have all the things, let me see your résumé, let me get a drop of blood from you.

And then they still don’t give you the money and I have experienced this personally, and actually somebody on my team used to be a banker who was in the room when they were like yeah, no we don’t trust her because it’s a woman. And especially if she’s a black woman, we definitely don’t trust her. I experienced it with getting a mortgage. I mean, these people thought I was running a Ponzi scheme. They were like, this business can’t be real. And I’m like, well here are my very real bank account statements, here are my very real tax bills that I paid. I don’t know what you’re talking about. How would I make this up? I don’t even know how to do that.

But there’s just this general mistrust and so VC capital, 98% goes to men and most of that is going to be white men. So there’s just like, no resources. So if you feel like I don’t have options, you are correct. That is true that they do make it harder. That doesn’t mean we can’t still make it happen. We absolutely can and I have found ways to make it happen and gotten very creative and strategic because I had to make it happen, and I teach that to my clients.

But I think it’s important to acknowledge that yes, those resources are very, very slim for women of color and black women especially. And it can really put a damper on the moves that we’re trying to make and the businesses that we’re trying to build.

Rachel C: Agreed.

Rachel R: It’s fucked up. But I love that you were like okay, I don’t have the resources, that doesn’t mean – maybe I can’t do this idea right now but I got this other moves that I can make right now in the meantime to get my money. And then as soon as you got to that place of oh, it’s popping, great. Now I’ve got the resources and I can make it happen. So honestly, we have to do it for ourselves and we have to do it for each other, and that’s one of the things that I can’t wait to do is – that’s a huge motivation to build my business, to continue to build it because I’m super comfortable now. I don’t need more things. I pretty much have everything that I want. My dream house was the last thing and it’s here. But what motivates me is becoming an angel investor and investing in black women.

Rachel C: That’s what I want so bad. It’s so funny, I haven’t spoken to any – it’s so hard to talk about money but we’ll talk about that later. But I haven’t really spoken to anyone about how like, I have everything I want right now. I’m moving into a one bedroom in Manhattan soon and that’s it. I mean, a puppy, I don’t know. I feel so grateful, I feel so wildly grateful right now and I don’t even have that much per se. I don’t even have the time to have that much. All of this popped off last June. Hasn’t even been a year yet, Rachel. It hasn’t even been a year that it’s really shifted for me.

And I consider right now that I have so much of everything I used to sit around and dream of having and with my company The Loveland Group, we have created the Loveland Foundation after I had my fundraiser for black women and girls there.

Rachel R: I saw that. Obsessed.

Rachel C: And raised over a quarter of a million dollars and so we – I brought in a philanthropic advisor and so now we have the entire foundation set up and it has put me in a space of like, just taking these resources that I’ve earned and that I’ve grown and that I’ve been strategic in building and just planting it. Seeding it into the ground to create more for so many more people because I have so much of what I want already and I’m so excited to see how all of this sprawls across different spaces whether it’s like I said, mental health for black girls or I’m so excited to build more businesses that’s hiring more women and then this incredible goal of being able to start my own fund and invest in other women. It just makes me so excited.

Rachel R: Yes, and this is what I say. I say to my clients and to black women especially and women of color like, let’s just get this million out the way. Let’s just get this money right now because once you get to a place of comfort with your personal life, like, I wanted to be able to take care of my mom, which we do, take care of my kids, creating a legacy for them. And once you get to that place, then it’s like, okay now it’s on and popping. We got the bills out the way. We’re not worrying about the mortgage, we’re not worrying about those things. It’s done. I don’t worry about those bills, they come out automatically, I never think about it.

So now I can spend that time thinking about okay, what’s next? Let’s continue to build wealth and what can we do with this money. Because money is a powerful tool and we need it. We need it. We need to control it. We need to control more of it so that we can make the things that we want to happen in the world happen. And that’s why I think it’s important to – I feel like it’s hard sometimes to be the activist and somebody that’s building wealth because it almost – sometimes people, and even some of my activist friends see it as incongruous. They don’t go together.

But I’m like, actually they do and I’m the activist. I’m the type of activist that I’m going to be out here getting this money and then when you’ve got a cause that you’re like hey Rachel I need you to submit, I’m like I got you and I write that check. That’s my role in this and that’s what I’ve just decided for myself and that’s my personal calling. That is my role. I think you just have to choose your role.

Rachel C: I totally hear you on that and I think this is such a special – I appreciate being able to exist in this special space where we are able to dish out those tools that people need to find the security and find the progression that really helps the movement overall, and I’m happy to be both. I mean, I’m out on the frontlines, I’m out speaking, I’m out writing publicly, I’m being very vocal, but I recognize also the long game that I won’t always be able to do this and there’s going to need to be fresh voices and fresh faces doing this work and I’m really, really excited to be putting in the effort now to ensure that I can pay for the tuition for a girl to get through college and not think about it so she can continue her writing and her activist work.

Just being intentional that – I’m super aware that this is the foundation of everything from now on as far as my career. I’m hyper aware of that, and so I’m hiring everyone I can, doing everything I can do, being as strategic and intentional as possible so that the benefits of this are far past this moment and far past myself.

Rachel R: Yes, for sure. I think you really do have to think beyond this moment in time. Like yes, it’s popping right now, things can always change, and that honestly was my motivation. Like I want to buy a house and pay it off that should shit hit the fan with my business, that is – I know our home life is secure and especially growing up where there were times where our home life was not secure, that was just super important to me.

But I agree with you and to be honest, I don’t call myself an activist but I am very vocal about the things that I think are important and that’s exactly why I created this podcast, to create a platform, to make sure that we’re having conversations about these topics and that we’re also seeing more of the women that we need to see, the amazing work that women of color are doing and black women are doing because there are a lot of wealthy black women that people act like don’t exist and it’s this total bro culture in entrepreneurship that I’m like – that’s very mature of me but this is how I feel about it.

Okay, so we’ve been talking about wealth and growing up without a lot of money that I know we both did. How do you navigate that? Do you feel sometimes or do you ever get challenged on that? Like personal wealth creation and this fight for socioeconomic justice?

Rachel C: It’s the height of my anxiety at the moment. It’s the hardest thing for me to deal with right now. I think just the natural guilt that people who grew up poor have, of what did I do to deserve this or what am I supposed to do with this, and having money and just – there’s so much power in money and that can be overwhelming when you get it.

And so I think that I currently am dealing with just the underlying feelings of like, do I deserve this and am I allowed to have this and the anxiety of what if I wake up in the morning and everything’s gone for whatever reason and just all of the feelings that I have around just the cash. Just the cash of it sitting there.

But then it goes further into like, now I’m looking forward to my first summer of doing absolutely nothing but existing in New York City and writing and my feelings around who am I to not have to work if I don’t want to and who am I to have this type of security. So I’ve been dealing a lot with that as well. But then the more tangible things of I flew to Jamaica a few months ago and I really struggled with even posting that I went because I’m like, people are going to be mad that I took a trip, like am I allowed to take weekend trips to Jamaica?

It was just the weekend. I went for three days. I stayed in this super lux rainforest tree house and I had all of these feelings about it and I really struggled with even if I was allowed to enjoy myself with what I had. And so I’ve been struggling a lot with it, I’m kind of on the further end of being able to move through it but it has been really, really hard because it’s making me consider if I’m allowed to be doing public work and be allowed to have wealth or be allowed to be well off while doing it.

Rachel R: Well, you 100% are allowed. I will give you the permission that you don’t need. You are allowed. And honestly, this is radical and this is what black women need to see other black women doing. Because we need to see other black women experiencing true joy. I remember when Bell Hooks wrote an essay or something after Beyoncé’s Lemonade came out and you know, people were like she’s hating on Lemonade. But I loved the essay specifically because she said that to truly be free, we have to choose beyond simply surviving adversity. She said we must dare to create lives of sustained optimal well-being and joy. We deserve joy.

Rachel C: Right? Why is that so hard for us?

Rachel R: Yes, because it’s constantly reinforced in our brains every fucking day that we don’t, because of the world that we live in. That’s why. But fuck that. That’s why me and you need to have these conversations and they’re published so that people can see like listen, we have to fight the matrix that we are all living in. That shit is bullshit and we have to just reinforce that and speak it to each other out loud on a regular basis so we can remind ourselves I fucking deserve utter complete joy. Unabashed, unapologetic joy. Why the fuck not? I don’t believe that god put me here so that I could be on the struggle bus all day every day and never ever have peace. Like what the fuck is that?

Rachel C: I know. It’s so hard. It’s so hard to digest that fully.

Rachel R: Yes, but I think that is the work. That is the work that we have to do and that is the model that we have to show because when you post your pictures of I’m in Jamaica living my best life and then I’m out here in these streets letting the world know, I’m doing the work and I’m also taking care of myself. I’m going to the spa because that’s what mama needs today. I’m getting on this plane and hitting that beach and yes, you will see those pictures and yes I’m having a margarita.

We have to see that because we need to model that behavior for the other women that are seeing us and are working way too hard. And you’re never going to build that wealth first of all, working that hard and you’re also not going to be able to reach your full potential and leave the legacy that you want to leave if you don’t take care of yourself. You absolutely must do that. That is not optional.

Rachel C: You know what, one of the ways that I’ve been combatting this, this guilt or this secret space of feeling ashamed maybe about how I’ve been doing it is that as I’ve been getting together with my girlfriends who are doing this same type of work, who are doing this activist work and who are – even if it’s more intellectual, public intellectual work, I’ve literally been showing them my bank account. Like, this is how much money I have, so let’s just start there. I just want to show you what’s possible.

You don’t have to do it the same way I’m doing it and you don’t have to show up in the same way that I’m showing up, but I’m letting go of the harsh secrecy that society has put on me around the horrific exchange of this energy of money, the exchange of this power of money because it’s really weighing on me. So literally I meet up with my girlfriends and we – at the beginning of the year we all sat down and we determined that this is 20-shine-teen, and how we were going to show up in it.

And as we were listing out what we wanted, I was like you guys, I really have this heavily on me about how this last nine months has been. I’m just going to show you how much I’m making so that you know. And that has been really liberating for me. Not living in this secret box of shame and guilt and misunderstanding. I’m not hiding anything, I’m not – this isn’t like a secret mission that I’m on to make a ton of money and no one know about it.

I’m just living and this is what I have and this is what I’m making. So here’s what’s possible for you and it’s really, really shifted how I’ve been able to both show up for my friends and show up for myself when it comes to thinking about who I am as someone who holds money and someone who uses it in all the meaningful ways that I find necessary. So for me to, like you said, control it, to say I’m bringing it in and putting it out in the meaningful ways for my community that I see fit. But I’m also letting my friends know that we can all pay our rent and book a flight and go to Essence Fest and fly out to Amsterdam and meet you at Paris and do this and this and that because we can do it all at the same time.

Rachel R: Yes, absolutely. I love that. And I do think that that is liberating and that is one of the reasons why I talk a lot about what I make and how much money I’m generating because I want women of color to see what’s possible. Otherwise we think it’s not doable. We think like, only white women, only white men, those are the people. Like if you look at every freaking – this is one of my pet peeves and I’m just like, throw it out.

Every Forbes list or rank list of these people under 30 or these amazing entrepreneurs under 40 or whatever the fuck, it’s literally all white people every time, and I’m just disgusted. This is bullshit because I happen to know a lot of amazing brown people who are doing crazy epic shit who should be on this fucking list. First of all, fuck your list, I’m not even interested anymore. Goodbye.

Rachel C: We need to make our own list, the Rachel and Rachel list of badass black women doing…

Rachel R: The Rachel and Rachel list, yes. We need to do that. I love that. But I do think it’s okay to go public, it’s okay to be successful. You are allowed. And you’re allowed to share it and you’re allowed to celebrate it and love it and enjoy it and enjoy your life. That is what we are here to do and I think we need to see more and more black women modeling joy for other black women. Because otherwise we think we just have to be these hardened people who just work hard and sort it all out, fix the world’s problems, fix the household problems, fix Tony down the street’s problems. You know what I mean?

And I’m like no, we are not your vessel to come in and fucking save the day when you fuck everything up all the time, America. That is not our role for you. Even though you are doing that though, you’re definitely doing that. Okay, so tell me what your self-care practice is like because I imagine it has to be intense to do this work, especially even to manage a large community on Instagram when you’re talking about race. I mean, when I mention one little silly thing in my newsletter, the bullshit that I get in my inbox on a regular basis so I can’t even imagine what it’s like on Instagram. So I am sure you need a detox on a regular basis so tell me about your self-care.

Rachel C: So my self-care – well, there’s two things. I get this question all the time and I’ve been telling my agent I need to write a self-care book because clearly this is what people want to talk about. I get asked every interview, every podcast, every lecture, it blows my mind that this is what people want to talk about.

Rachel R: Why does it blow your mind that people want to talk about this?

Rachel C: It’s so interesting because there’s so much that goes into the conversation that I present online. I bring out what I feel is critical discourse and this intense academia from the work that I’m doing, from the things that I’m reading, from what I’m trying to pull out, and everyone’s like, so what’s your self-care like?

Rachel R: Listen, we’re all trying to learn how to take better care of ourselves and I think for sure, there’s no one that needs to learn how to take better care of themselves more than black women. And it’s something that’s been a journey for me, learning how to take care of myself. Especially like I just coach women and I feel like that is very intense work as well and can be like you’re holding space for other people’s journey, their struggles, their emotions that come up. It’s heavy work. It was way easier to be a lawyer. That was way, way easier.

So like, I have had to next level my self-care and also as I’ve built out my team and my team has gotten bigger and we have more full-time people, I’m also holding space for my team. Then I also have my own meltdowns and I’ve got several children and I’m still nursing and I’ve got a black man that is in my household. So there’s a lot of people that need me and so I have to make sure that I prioritize taking care of myself, and that is something that I sucked at doing. And I have to say, I almost feel like the better care you take of yourself, the more money you make. I think they go hand in hand and the more success you bring to yourself.

Rachel C: That wouldn’t surprise me. That wouldn’t surprise me at all. I think that – so there’s two things that go into this question of self-care. The first is that everyone sees the heaviness of this work, which is very true. This is very exhausting work and it’s very heavy, and it’s very emotionally draining and intellectually draining. But the thing is this is my purpose. This is what I’m meant to do, and so I’m coming into it with a level of readiness that I would probably say the normal person wouldn’t have because it’s not their purpose.

Rachel R: Right, you’re energized by it because it’s like your calling. Totally.

Rachel C: This is my calling, this is what I’m supposed to do so whatever level of exhaust that people are imagining, they’re imagining it from their standpoint of whether they would want to be doing it or not. I truly believe that this was hand delivered to me from my ancestors and this is the work I’m supposed to be doing so I’m probably not feeling what you’re feeling just thinking about it. I’m feeling empowered because this is the work that I’m supposed to be doing. So that’s one thing.

Now, the reality is here on the natural plane of existence, yes it is exhausting and it is heartbreaking and it is frustrating to have all of these things, and so the things that I do in order to reenergize myself and just maintain my existence and the bullshit is that I really surround myself with black women, which is my safety zone. It’s where I’m able to feel free and laugh freely and smile freely and speak freely and it just gives me a sense of groundedness that I need to continue on out in the world where I often feel uprooted in my emotion or uprooted in the feelings that I have around the topic at hand.

In terms of actual self-care, I think a lot of my tangible self-care has been alongside of spending time with black women and spending time in black spaces is just like, giving myself opportunities to really consider what I love and the doing it. So I love plants so I buy them. I love going to a particular spa so I go there. I love having free mornings so I give myself that and I plan things in the afternoon.

So it’s just – it’s nothing big. I’m not flying to Aruba every three weeks. I haven’t bought a luxury car, I’m not shopping at luxury stores. It’s literally just indulging in the – I realize the more money I’ve made, the more simple my life can be. I’ve really been indulging in the ability and the opportunity I have for convenience and simplicity. And so that has been my self-care of like, taking an Uber instead of the train or buying three really nice expensive shirts instead of feeling like I need to buy a new shirt every three weeks and having a capsule wardrobe.

Really simple things like that that give me so much joy that are a privilege of convenience and of money, but I’ve really been practicing knowing what I like and then doing it and I’ve found that those things are usually very, very simple and it doesn’t take – I always say I’m a pretty low maintenance girl. It doesn’t take much to make me happy. And so the things like early morning and plants and taking the vitamin that I love that I wouldn’t have been able to afford a year ago.

Or you know, just deciding that I’m going to – putting in my calendar, telling my entire team no one call me for two weeks because I’m not going to answer. Doing things like that, like you guys call each other and figure it out, I don’t want to talk to any of you, those types of things bring me more joy than something that I think most people or other people I would say find this type of indulgence. My indulgence has really been in simple things.

Rachel R: I think that that is totally true. I’m the same way where it’s like, a cup of tea and sitting on the couch in front of the fireplace with no children asking me for anything, that is amazing. I would buy that if I could.

Rachel C: You have now. You have a fireplace, you have the team, you have literally bought the time and that is how you’re spending your money. That’s how I’m spending my money. Early mornings walking around Central Park because I can and not rushing to work. And I can buy a New York Times and I can sit and have an oat milk latte because I have put myself in a position to be able to do that.

Rachel R: Yes. Also, oat milk is life.

Rachel C: Someone made a post yesterday that said oat milk and Rachel Cargle are the future, and I was like, I have never felt more affirmed in my life.

Rachel R: Yes, exactly. There was like, an Oatly shortage here in North Carolina. I think…

Rachel C: Here in New York too.

Rachel R: Yeah, it probably was national and I was like, how am I supposed to drink coffee?

Rachel C: Like why am I paying New York rent if you don’t have oat milk?

Rachel R: Exactly. What is this? What is this place that I live in? I love that, it’s so true. And one of my favorite things to do is literally go through my calendar. I do this every quarter, and block out time. Like this week no appointments.

Rachel C: At the beginning of the week I go through my calendar and cancel shit.

Rachel R: Oh my god, first of all, you are goals and that is my favorite thing that I’ve ever heard. Like oh, it’s the beginning of the week, don’t want to do that, fuck that, fuck this too. Fuck that over there.

Rachel C: And then I tell my assistant like, let them know I have a dentist appointment. I have to. I have to.

Rachel R: Listen, we got to take care of this first before we can go…

Rachel C: Maybe that’s my self-care. Maybe that should be my answer. That is some of my self-care.

Rachel R: Seriously, because sometimes you really just don’t have it in you. Sometimes you’re just like, I don’t want to.

Rachel C: I’m more hyper attuned to what I don’t have time for than ever in my life.

Rachel R: I love it, yes. Value your time. I honestly feel that we as women need to value our time more than we value our money, literally. See your time as like, the most expensive thing that you have and so be precious with it and do not let motherfuckers waste it.

Rachel C: For sure, for sure.

Rachel R: So one last question that I wanted to ask you, which is maybe too big of a question but we’ll see. I wanted to see what your thoughts are on intersectional feminism today. Like, how do you feel about that? I have a lot of friends, we talk a lot about feminism and my black women friends feel that the feminist movement is not for black women, which I’m sure you’ve heard as well. And at first I honestly – there was a time where I felt like well, there were black women at the beginnings of feminism who fought alongside white women even though those white women did not deserve them.

And so I feel like I can take up that mantle or take my version of the movement and move it forward for their sake. Like, because they fought for my rights. And they’re like, I hear you but I disagree. So I’m just curious to hear from you and I think I’m still sort of – it’s like we’re sort of evolving and learning every day and it’s like, sometimes we’re like I don’t really actually fully know exactly where I stand on certain parts of this, so I just wanted to hear what your thoughts are on intersectional feminism. Does it actually exist or is it just a phrase that we’re throwing around but not really seeing truly lived out?

Rachel C: Yeah, so my – I do identify myself as a feminist. I don’t plan on changing that any time soon, but I do find myself in a space of feminism and it’s really where I do a lot of my work. Now, there is an incredibly racist foundation of the feminist movement in every wave in a million ways that it showed up that the women who were leading the movement, these women who were poster children, Susan B. Anthony, Carrie Chapman Catt, a lot of people who were showing up under the guise of feminism, which is supposed to include all women and it definitely didn’t.

Feminism, the feminist movement, and whenever it used the word women was often really just another term for white women because that’s who it centered, that’s whose agenda it was pushing and everything else was marginalized. Other intersections of womanhood weren’t taking into consideration, whether it be ability, whether it be race, whether it be sexuality. There are a lot of things that were pushed to peripheral spaces and it didn’t – and the feminist movement did not include all women.

And it shows up again today and some of the biggest ways that it’s showing up in my opinion and from the work that I do, the research that I’ve done, the things that I teach is in things like voting, white women choosing their whiteness over their womanhood. We saw it in the 2016 presidential election where…

Rachel R: Oh my god.

Rachel C: Women who walked into the voting booths said that we wanted president Trump, so those ways that they’re choosing their whiteness over their womanhood, saying that they’re a feminist but really not considering every woman besides the type of woman that looks and lives like they do. So there are a lot of problems within the feminist movement and I think that those have to be taken into consideration and those have to be accounted for in order for all of us to feel safe within in.

And so that’s kind of the work that I do is that I hold a mirror up to white women and I have them take account and hold themselves accountable and each other accountable for how they’re showing up within a movement that says it’s for all women but the banner is really only hanging over white women, their experiences, their lives and their expectations.

And so it’s an ongoing conversation and it’s one that I’ve been having over the last several months and with my lecture, Unpacking White Feminism, which I’m touring right now, it’s bringing out that history, it’s bringing up those questions and it’s holding people accountable for how they’re showing up in a movement and whether their feminism is for all women or not.

Rachel R: Yes. What do you feel like is the general response that you get at your lectures when you share this truth with these women?

Rachel C: The people who come to my lectures are usually people who follow me, who have – I have 217,000 followers and usually in whatever city I go in it’s a collection of people who have heard my work and seen it already. There’s a lot of discomfort. These are people who are usually prepared to be uncomfortable with what I have to say because I’m not out here lecturing opinion. I’m teaching facts. I’m teaching history. So people have to account for how they play into that history and what are the modern manifestations of that.

And so there’s a lot of discomfort. There’s natural pushback. I kind of pull people’s introspection out and I say how do you feel about this, how have you shown up in this way. And so the response is usually a lot of discomfort but I think a lot of appreciation for me kind of shining light on something that a lot of people didn’t think of because they didn’t have to think of it due to their white privilege or due to the fact that what the pain points weren’t happening to them so they didn’t have to think about it.

And so I’m kind of shining a light on it and the response I mean, if we just go off of the amount of people who are listening to my voice on the topic, to go from 10K followers last June to 215K now, there’s an obvious interest in being ready to have this conversation.

Rachel R: Yes, I love that, and that makes me happy and it makes me hopeful. And I’m really grateful, I have to say, as a black woman, that you are out here doing this work because you’re creating change. Every single one of those women can be in a position where they’re more aware, where they can bring that awareness to the dinner table that they’re sitting around with their family members, and I just feel like there’s a ripple effect, which is really exciting. So I can’t imagine where we’re going to be in 10 years from now, but I’m hopeful.

Rachel C: Same.

Rachel R: Yes. Thank you so much for having this conversation with me. I really enjoyed talking to you and you shared so many nuggets that I know are going to inspire the women that listen to this. Tell us, I know you have a few lectures coming up. Where are they? Where can my peeps go learn more about you?

Rachel C: So Instagram is where I do most of my work. My Instagram is just my name, rachel.cargle, and that’s where I announce everything. I’m currently finishing up this lecture tour and I’m shifting to a new model, how I do this work and which I’ll kind of be like a musician, just dropping my tour dates and if you can make it you can make it, if not, sorry.

And so I’m kind of just touring on my own terms and coming up with new lectures, more critical conversation to really get people engaged. A lot of my work I write for Harper’s Bazaar as well, so a lot of my pieces are in there where you can kind of read into some of the thoughts that I’m putting out in the world. And then my website, if you want to invite me to speak anywhere is just rachelcargle.com. Kind of engage in my work and my business and my foundation information is there as well.

Rachel R: Awesome. Thank you so much and I know we’ll keep talking.

Rachel C: Thank you.

So guys, I hope you enjoyed that incredible conversation with Rachel Cargle. I know I definitely enjoyed having that conversation. Here’s the thing that I want you guys to take away. I’m going to give you homework, as always, and the thing that I got so excited about that Rachel shared was choosing herself. She didn’t wait to have multiple degrees, she didn’t wait for a PhD to call herself a lecturer.

As she mentioned, she could have called this speaking tour that she wanted to do anything but she called it a lecture series and she decided to become someone that is teaching on a topic that some could say that she’s not qualified to teach on, and she qualified herself. And I think that there is a big lesson in that for all of us as women, especially as women of color. We do not always have to wait for gatekeepers to come along and say yes, we’re good enough. We don’t need another certification or another license.

What we need is to step into our power and choose ourselves. So my homework for you today is I want you to spend some time thinking about what you want to be when you grow up. What is that big dream? What is that big thing that you want to accomplish? What is that big thing that you want to be known for?

And I encourage you to step into that role right now. I encourage you to not wait until you’re better or good enough or you have another certification or you take another exam or you get another license or you get another degree. We don’t need those things. What we need to do is stop waiting and stop being scared.

So I want you to think about what are some things that you really want to be that you really want to step into and then I want you to just brainstorm and write down in your journal a couple of ways that you can start to step into that role right now. Maybe it’s offering a speaker series the way Rachel did. Maybe it’s pitching yourself to the media. Maybe it’s going after that book deal, writing that book proposal now and not waiting until you have a larger audience or you a bigger platform.

Maybe it’s becoming a podcaster or maybe it’s something that you really want to teach or the business that you really want to be running but you’ve been scared. I want you to step into that right now. So brainstorm some ideas on how you can go about doing that. And if you want some help and some support and some encouragement, then you should check out Million Dollar Badass.

Million Dollar Badass is my 12-month mastermind for women entrepreneurs. It’s a diverse, amazing group of women from various ethnicities and from different industries and what we do is we coach you and teach you how to take your business from $100,000 to a million. So if you’re in that six-figure range, anywhere from $100,000 to $500,000 and you want to get to a million, sooner rather than later, than this is the program for you.

It’s advanced business training. There is coaching, there is training, we get together for live events. This is a community that will support you, that will push you past your limitations, past your fears, past your limiting beliefs. I love, love, love doing this work. I am on a mission to help every woman that I meet become a millionaire, and so I would love to help you.

The way that you apply is you go to helloseven.co/apply and apply right now. Then we’ll have a conversation, we’ll give you all the details and you decide what’s best for you. We do not do a hard sell. In fact, there are a lot of people that we do not accept into the program. It’s selective but it’s really about desire. If you have the desire and you really want it, we really want to work with you and we really want to help you get there.

So go to helloseven.co/apply and apply right now.

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