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Hello Seven with Rachel Rodgers | Work Less to Make More: The Hot Seat with Claire Pelletreau

084 Work Less to Make More: The Hot Seat with Claire Pelletreau

Today I want to introduce you to my first official hot seat on the podcast. I’m welcoming one of our Schmillies, which is what I call my community of more than 2,000 incredible, wonderful, ambitious people in the We Should All Be Millionaires: The Club, and Claire Pelletreau joins me to talk about how she streamlined her business and now works less while making more money.

Claire Pelletreau is a Facebook and Instagram ads consultant to seven and eight-figure course creators looking to exponentially increase their ROI on advertising. She is the host of the Get Paid Podcast, a show committed to total transparency about money that pulls back the curtain on the reality of running an online business. She joins me this week to talk more about what she does and how she manages her business.

Join us this week as we talk numbers, details, and all things juicy, and I coach Claire on her business and finances. Claire shares her story about how she ended up in digital marketing, what she has implemented from We Should All Be Millionaires: The Club and how this has impacted her business, and her advice to anybody considering joining The Club.

Are you currently earning $50 – $100,000 per year? If so, you can absolutely scale to $1 million per year, it’s just a matter of thinking bigger and packing your skills in a new way. Let me show you how it’s done! Come to my free Power Offers Masterclass where I’ll show you how to develop a scalable offer that your customers will find irresistible.

If you want access to trainings, community, group coaching and maybe even your chance at a hot seat, We Should All Be Millionaires: The Club is for you. Doors will be opening again soon, so click the link to get your name on the waitlist so you can be the first to hear about your chance to snag a seat in our incredibly special community.

Pre-order your copy of my new book, We Should All Be Millionaires, and claim some incredible pre-sale bonuses! Click here for details.

What You'll Learn from this Episode:

  • Why we need to feel that the work we do in the world matters.
  • The benefits of delegating to other people in your business.
  • Why Claire started a podcast where she interviews online entrepreneurs about how they operate their businesses.
  • How memberships can take your business to a whole other level.
  • The tool I use to help people grow their businesses.
  • Why it’s courageous to be honest and say what you’re really thinking.
  • How it can take trying and testing things in your business to see what works and is profitable.

Listen to the Full Episode:

Featured on the Show:

*** Some of the links shared here are affiliate links – we only serve as affiliates for products we believe in.


I think that sort of fake, you know, internet wealth, people see right through it and it’s so toxic. I want people to see an example of like a normal person who didn’t have money and now does so that they can see that there’s a pathway for that that doesn’t involve becoming a celebrity.

Welcome to the Hello Seven Podcast. I'm your host, Rachel Rodgers, wife, mother of four children, a lover of Beyoncé, coffee drinker, and afro-wearer, and I just happen to be the CEO of a seven-figure business. I am on a mission to help every woman I meet become a millionaire. If you want to make more money, you are in the right place. Let's get it going.

Today we’ve got a Shmilly story interview for you to enjoy. If you're new here Shmilly is the nickname for members of We Should All be Millionaires: The Club. My signature membership program with almost 2,000 incredible business building folks inside.

I always say this, but the Shmilly community is one of the coolest and most ambitious and most amazing corners of the whole internet. And today I want to introduce you to one of our Shmilly’s and shine a spotlight on her work and her story.

Claire Pelletreau is a Facebook and Instagram ads consultant to seven and eight figure course creators looking to exponentially increase their ROI on advertising. She is also the host of the Get Paid podcast, a show committed to total transparency about money and pulling back the curtain on the reality of running an online business.

We're also going to talk about what it's like to be in the club, what Claire has learned from being a Shmilly, and you're going to get to listen in while I coach Claire on her business right here on the podcast. Are you excited? We are going to get into her numbers and talk details, and it's going to be so juicy. So please enjoy.

Rachel: Hello Claire, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast today.

Claire: Rachel, this is a big deal for me, I've been like dreaming about this moment. I won't gush, I said I wouldn't gush and here I'm gushing. But yeah, I'm so excited. Thank you so much for having me.

Rachel: Yay. Thank you for agreeing to this, which you may regret later, we'll see. But seriously, though, you are one of my favorite people on the internet. And here's one of the, this is going to sound strange, but one of the things that I really like about you is that you're not so nice.

Claire: Oh, wow. Interesting.

Rachel: You know how like most women walk around feeling like this pressure to be nice all the time? And I don't know if you experience that pressure but I feel like you're really direct in your communication, which I love and appreciate. So not so many people are like that. Some people are just like, overly nice and everything. And we love nice people, like yeah, that's cool.

Claire: You don’t love nice people, come on.

Rachel: See what I mean? Exactly, this is exactly an example of that. Exactly. I like people to just be straight up, like I find it so refreshing and I relate to it. And I feel like when you're just really direct in your communication and you're really honest, honestly that is what's kind. Its kind to be straight up and tell people the truth, even if it's something they don't want to hear, you know? And to not feel like you have to overly package everything into like a nice package. Like fuck that bullshit, you know?

Claire: Well, you know, I have not always been like this like since I started my business. I would say, you know, imposter syndrome and just like general low self-esteem kept me from being like this for a long time. And I am glad that I am finally, that it's finally like something I can embrace.

Rachel: Yes. Is it like liberating to just tell people the truth and say it like it is?

Claire: It is really great to hear positive feedback like yours. Like that it is different and that it is appreciated. And that is what makes me keep doing it.

Rachel: Yes. I mean, I've heard you on your podcast, on the Get Paid podcast, like giving your guests a hard time, and I love it.

Claire: Yeah, you know what, though Rachel? I still, like after those episodes, after those recordings I'm still like, “Well fuck, why didn't I ask that question?” I mean, people are here to talk about, to listen to the stories about money and I didn't even ask her about money, like God. So I'm glad that you like it, there's more that I can do. And see there I am, like that's my own shit.

Rachel: Yes, I mean, first of all, I've done that many times. Like I finish a training or a podcast episode or anything and I'm like, “Oh damn. Now I'm remembering all these things that I could have done better.” So I think a lot of us do that. But I think there's something to be said, it's courageous to be honest in this day and age. And to just be straight up and say what it is and say what you're really thinking.

You know, we had an incident on the team this week where, you know, there was an event happening and I wasn't as prepped for it as I had expected to be. And I just straight up told my team in the moment” Hey, I'm disappointed and here's why.”

And I didn’t yell at anybody, I wasn’t rude. I didn’t belittle them, they're all adults, you know. But I told them straight up, “Hey, this sucks that we're here right now and this is not what I expected. And I'm disappointed and I want you to know that. And I want you to know that, you know, I have another event like this next week and I hope that we're not here again next week.”

And then we had a conversation about what happened. And we have a process too, like at Hello Seven we have this policy, blame the process not the person. So like, where did process fail us? Where did the system fail us? And that's why we're here. And so, you know, we bring that into it, “Okay, what could I have done better? Did I not communicate my vision enough?” You know, whatever.

But then you can have really real conversations and actually solve problems instead of being like, “Oh no, it's fine.” And doing that it's fine dance but you're really pissed.

Claire: Yeah.

Rachel: I hate that kind of communication.

Claire: Definitely. So because of you I finally hired a full-time person and her first week. And in a lot of her onboarding I would say, “Hey, this is where I failed to be direct, or failed to communicate with my previous people. And like, why things didn't work out the way I was hoping.” And she said to me yesterday, “This has been the most incredible onboarding experience I've ever had.”

Rachel: Yay.

Claire: Just because like it's real, we're not rushing into things, it feels good. And I feel like a lot of that has come from the really honest conversations that you have. So yes to fucking honesty.

Rachel: Yes. Yes to honesty, plus one. Plus one for honesty. Okay, so let's back up. We are in the midst of a pandemic and you are the mom of little ones. Tell me like how is all that going for you?

Claire: Yeah, so now it's good. But I gave birth to my second child in July of 2020. So that fucking sucked. You know, like pandemic little baby, four-year-old who was not in school or anything. My like dreams of a chill maternity leave, which I also didn't have with my first, well they went out the window.

But we got full-time help with the kids starting in October. And that's when I was able to get back to work. And then thanks to that I've been able to get back on the good mental health train, is what I’ll call it.

Rachel: Yes. Listen, another plus one for full-time help in the home. It is so needed and we should talk about it more. And I feel like sometimes people think like a full-time nanny, I can't tell you how long I waited. I mean, I had a seven-figure business before I had a full-time nanny.

Claire: Yeah, why do you think you waited? Here come my questions, Rachel.

Rachel: Because I'm dumb, I don't know. I don't know. I think I thought I had it. And basically, I had two toddlers 19 months apart, right? Like, so they were both little at the same time. And my husband, I know why, my husband was a stay-at-home dad for a while. So that was sort of like, I guess that was my, you know, we had full time support in that my husband was doing it.

So I think that's part of the reason why, but even then, like we had so many issues and so many challenges just between us. And I think it was because there was more work than there were people to do it. Right? Like, it's like, “You're going to do that? No, you know, you're going to make me do that?” Like you're fighting over who's going to do what and you have to just realize, actually, there's more work than there are hands to do it. So we need more people, like we need more hands, you know? And I think that's the key approach instead of fighting with your partner all the time.

I mean, some of these partners are not pulling their weight. And if they're not, then you got to be like, “Yo, I need help here. I can't do it alone.” So those conversations sometimes need to happen. But then if both parties are like putting in work and working full time, and you can't get enough sleep, and you can't rest, and you don't have time to just like go for a walk or just have any kind of self-care, then yeah, you need help.

So I think that's so important. And, you know, I know a lot of people were like having no help in the house because of the pandemic. But I'm like, “Listen, I'm going to take this calculated risk.” That was the choice that I made, you know. And our full-time help, we just had a conversation about it and we were both super careful. And luckily, we never got it, thank God.

And hopefully that continues that way because, you know, children can't get vaccinated. But yeah, I think it's so essential and if you can afford it, do it and do it even before you can afford it.

Claire: Yeah. No, definitely. And I still like have conversations with some mom friends who are nearby, where like I don't feel comfortable talking about how much we pay our nanny. She asked for a lot and I think she's fucking worth it. And I'm really impressed that this like young woman asked for a lot. But it's like, you know, I think sometimes you don't –

Well, we almost didn't get a nanny because of the cost. Because we compared it to daycare, but daycare would have been for one kid. This is care for two kids. And it makes perfect sense. And yeah, it's a bigger expense now but mommy gets to work all the time, and then also go out for walks, have lunch with her husband. Like, I don't know, I feel like right now, with this help it's almost easier than daycare because there's none of that drop off, there's none of that emails.

Rachel: The Freaking emails.

Claire: Yeah

Rachel: I cannot, I swear my kids have not gone back to school, we hired a teacher to do homeschooling with our kids. And she's doing it with all three of them and it's been great. And I actually don't think I'm sending my kids back even when it reopens.

Claire: Wow.

Rachel: So we've loved it. And I have to tell you, the amount of time I have regained from just not fielding 57 emails a day for each classroom, right? Like there's like so many emails like 25 emails a month, a minimum, you know, per classroom, or maybe it's a week. It's insane just the amount of communication you have to stay on top of. Then the commute, then the packing lunches, like all of that is gone.

And yes, I mean, I do think I want them to have more time with their peers, so we'll reintegrate that as the world reopens. But I have zero regrets about pulling them out of school. And they're learning about Black History every week. They're not just learning about slavery; they're learning about positive things about black people and black history. And, you know, we get to shape their education a lot more, which has been lovely.

But just the commute there and back to pick up the kids and the email communication, like eliminating those two things, I mean, I have at least 10 hours a week back. Probably a little bit more, you know?

Claire: Yeah, totally.

Rachel: Which is amazing.

Claire: Yep. Yay for nannies.

Rachel: Yay for nannies, we love y'all. You make it possible.

Okay, so tell me what drew you to working in digital advertising? Did you always want to work in marketing? Because for those that don't know, what Claire does is help people with their Facebook and Instagram advertising for their offers. So tell us like what drew you to that? How did you wind up in that?

Claire: It's a really strange story. I had no interest in it, I was probably going to end up as a social worker if I hadn't moved to Argentina when I was 23 and started teaching English there.

So after a certain amount of time I just started like looking for online jobs. And I was always a good writer, so I was doing like blogging and social media. And I met my husband there who had a startup. And one day he sits me down at the dining room table, and he says, “I want you to come and work for my startup.”

And that's how I started learning about digital marketing, and running Facebook ads, and Google Analytics. And then when we decided, yeah, we can't keep working together if we want to stay together, I went online looking for a job because like getting paid in Argentine pesos is not a good thing.

So I ended up with a full-time job in online marketing, but I didn't last more than 14 months, I was fired. But at that point I already had my side gig running ads for other people going because that was one of my biggest responsibilities at the previous job.

And so I just, you know, started looking for clients and landing them slowly but surely. And learning about like, “Oh, okay, it's hard to run ads for clients. There are a lot of expectations that you have to manage, but everyone and their mother seems to want to learn about this.” So I launched a course pretty early on in my working for myself career. And it's been going, you know, up and down since then. Now it's going really well.

Rachel: Awesome. So wait, tell us why you got fired. I love this. I've been fired many times. My operations director, Brittany, who works on my team and is amazing, she is like literally, I can't say enough good things about her. But she has never been fired she told me the other day. And I was like, “What? I've never heard of that.” I thought everyone has been fired at least once. I think I have been fired many times.

Claire: Are you kidding Rachel? I don't know anyone who has been fired.

Rachel: Really?

Claire: No, I don’t know, maybe.

Rachel: I think I'm unemployable. I've been fired multiple times.

Claire: I can see that. But like, Rachel, I don't even know how long you didn't work for yourself, right? Like, how many possible jobs could you have gotten fired from?

Rachel: Well, I have been working since I was 14 years old steadily. Like the only time I didn't have a job was, like literally from 14 to now, was my first year, maybe my first two years of law school, because you literally can't work, they actually tell you you cannot. And the workload is so insane that it's really hard to keep up if you have a full-time job. But I lived off of loans and then, you know, my boyfriend. Not that I recommend that.

Claire: Yeah, and then you have to pay back those fucking loans.

Rachel: Yes, exactly. Actually, it's more of the living off of the boyfriend’s salary that I was really speaking to. I prefer the loans honestly. Luckily, it worked out, but a lot of times it does not.

So yeah, I have been fired quite a few times. And honestly, almost every time I've been fired, I skipped out of there because I was so happy because I just hated it. And that's why I got fired, I wasn't going to do my best work there because I just hated the job. I've also quit a lot of jobs over the years. So anyway, tell us your firing story.

Claire: Okay. Well, it's pretty embarrassing because it's related to Facebook ads. So like you know I wasn't telling this detailed story in my early days of like, “I got fired, but then I started my own business and it was great.” You know, it was like, “Uh, no.”

Well, a couple things. One, I checked in with my boss when I started the side gig. And so that clued her into the fact that, okay, we basically have like another entrepreneur on the team, she might not be long term. Yeah, she might not be with us long term because her eyes are not on the prize anymore, or whatever.

So then she noticed that I was spending more on the campaign's that they had the best cost per lead, but they didn't have the best conversion rate into our free trial or dollar trial, I think it was. Now this is back in 2014, when you could not track conversions in the same way. But still, I could have done that shit manually and I wasn't. I wasn't really focusing on the metric that mattered. I was like, “Oh, look at that cost per leads, I'm amazing.”

And so she pointed that out. But for her what it was, and she was not wrong, it was a signal that I did not quite have the analytics brain that she needed for the person running her marketing. She was about to switch business models to assess. And that is all about, like, you know, analyzing that data, analyzing the churn rate, what is the LTV, the lifetime value

She was completely right that I was not the person to lead the marketing for that business. And she was a very small team, so she said, “Listen, if I had a bigger marketing team, you would be on it. But you're just not the right fit.” And she was right. And she did me a huge favor by firing me because I never would have left, ever. It was a great job and she was an amazing boss and I learned so much.

Rachel: That's so awesome, I love hearing that. And I really hope that when people, you know, if and when people leave Hello Seven that they would say that about me. That would be like my greatest honor.

And I mean, I know members of my team have said that. But that is so beautiful. I just think that's really great because it's so rare for people to say, “I love my job. I love where I work. I love my company. I have a great boss.” Like you just don't hear that very often, usually it's the opposite. So shout out to her, you know?

Okay. So you are clearly a self-described data nerd, you got to be to dig into Facebook ads.

Claire: Oh, and by the way, I like fixed that issue moving forward for every single client that I started working with, like, “All right, we're tracking the most important metrics and not just the pretty cost per lead one.” So I learned a lesson, an important one.

Rachel: Yes, yes. Let's close that loop and make that clear. But, you know, sometimes the thing is mistakes, especially big mistakes are so, like that is where the growth happens. It's almost like it doesn't happen until you do it. You know, until you make that mistake, or until you, you know, have some big fallout from an error. That's when you really learn and absorb that lesson and can take things to the next level, you know?

So I think mistakes are important. That's why I always tell my team like, “I encourage you to make mistakes. I actually let you make your own decisions because I need you to make those mistakes, so that you can learn for yourself. Because there's only so many times of me saying it. Sometimes you just really need to internalize the lesson by making a mistake and learning from it, you know?” So I think those can be good moments.

Okay. So you are a self-described data nerd. And I can totally relate to that. So many business owners are scared of numbers and data, and they put their head in the sand and completely ignore them. What do you say to those people?

Claire: Oh, yeah, no, I completely understand how overwhelming those numbers can be. Especially if you're inside of Facebook's ads manager and you're like trying to figure out where the fuck did your money just go. But like, I mean, you have to be paying attention to those just key metrics. And there's really just a couple.

Facebook doesn't really want you paying attention to those otherwise, you might spend less, at least that's my opinion. So all you have to do is just kind of figure out what those most important metrics are and ignore the rest. Nobody cares, or nobody should care about what their cost per video view is. Are they getting on your list, or aren't they?

Rachel: Yeah, are they buying something or not? Like who gives a shit?

Claire: Yeah, well that's the thing, Facebook really, like they tell you, “Hey, it costs you a cent for each page post engagement.” But what does that mean? What is that turning into? You can actually check your reports to see like, well, did anyone buy? Did anyone sign up for the free thing? Because I'm looking at, you know, page post engagement on a boosted post, which is the biggest fucking sham.

Rachel: I agree.

Claire: Yes, it is. And the thing is, it's Facebook's way of making you feel comfortable advertising. But it doesn't actually get you in front of the right people. I won't go into the whole, like, you know how the algorithm works unless you want me to, Rachel. But let me just tell you now that the boost post button is not showing your ads to the right people.

So just figure out what the right metrics are, focus on a couple of them, and ignore the rest.

Rachel: Yeah, so you know what? I bet your boosted posts, part of their job, I think, is to get people just to like actually do it once just to try advertising if you've never done it, or if you feel super nervous and really uncomfortable about it. It's like, it's basically the ad is done for you, all you got to do is like press boost and you're done, you know? And I think that’s the appeal.

Claire: Exactly. And then the reports, the reports look so good. It looks like you've gotten such a big bang for your buck, but it doesn't matter if people clicked on the see more button of your post if they then did not go and, you know, take some kind of action, move onto your list or become a buyer. Just liking something is not going to help your bank account.

So anyway, yeah, they definitely want you to go through the process and like get a quick win. But we have to be careful about doing that always.

Rachel: Yes, I agree. Sometimes you got to, it's that uncomfortable E word, effort.

Claire: Yep, it is uncomfortable.

Rachel: It’s like, “Oh, I got to do all that?” Yeah honey, you got to do all that, sorry.

Okay, so on your podcast, the Get Paid podcast, you interview online entrepreneurs to find out the real story about how they operate their business. What made you want to start a podcast about this?

Claire: Well, because when I got fired, I started Googling how to get clients and I couldn't find anything. I couldn't find anything real. And then, you know, I was just sort of stumbling through the process. But as I got deeper and deeper into the like the online world, I started seeing all of this. You know, this was actually the era of the Facebook ads that talked so much about six figure businesses. Now you can't really do that like, you know, how to reach six figures in six minutes.

Rachel: Six minutes exactly.

Claire: Yeah.  But like what I really wanted to know was, what are people doing to make six figures? Because I'm over here making like $750, or maybe like $2,000 a month, but that's not going to add up to six figures. So what is it? What are people selling? And then what do they have to have to sell that? Is it a certain list size? Or are they using ads? Or what's the deal?

So I just started chatting about that to a couple of people and they're like, “Yes, start that podcast.” And at first it was going to be the Pay Your Rent podcast.

Rachel: I love that too. That's so good.

Claire: Yeah, and I then thought, “Okay, well, maybe that's going to get confused with some kind of mortgage thing, I don't really know, real estate.” So I changed it to Get Paid podcast and I launched it. And there was a really good response to it.

Rachel: I love it. And I love that you like really ask people like, how much money are you making? And how are you making it? And like who's on your list? Or like what are you selling that's making the most money? Or whatever, it's so good.

And it's, especially, you know, when you have entrepreneurs on there who are making a lot of money, that's what people want to know. They want to know like, what is your business model? What are you selling? How long have you been selling it? Like, how are you getting people to pay that amount? They want to know the real nitty gritty. And I think you give it to them, which is amazing.

Claire: Yeah. And we've also been able to look at like the different strategies that work now. Right?

Rachel: Yes.

Claire: Because if you hear me on a podcast from four years ago, like I don't necessarily recommend you follow that advice. You know, but I like to bring my guests back periodically because, I mean, those are my favorite episodes. To you hear what they're doing now compared to what they were doing three years ago.

Rachel: So good.

Claire: Because their businesses have always changed. Like, I have a hard time sometimes finding the guests that are still doing the same thing, like working in the same niche as when I had them on in 2016.

Rachel: Interesting.

Claire: Yeah. People they, you know, twist and turn and change completely. Or like one of my friends, Becca Tracey, she literally said in her first episode, “I will never go evergreen.” And then in the next episode, years later, it's all about how she went evergreen.

Rachel: I love it. I know, I mean, you probably could have had a recording of me saying, “I will never do memberships. I hate memberships, they're the worst.” And then, of course, that is the business model that I'm doing now and that has taken our business to a whole other level.

So yeah, I agree your opinions change, your model changes. I think it's beautiful if you can stay on mission because your brand and the thing that your brand does doesn't change, you don't have to shift who your audience is necessarily. But you just might shift how you serve them. And that’s interesting.

Claire: 100%. And that's what I have done and I felt awkward. I felt uncomfortable like making the switch because I sold the same like signature course for so long. But now that course is inside a different experience.

Rachel: Yes, yes, exactly. Right? So it's almost like, you know, you might have an offer or a product and it's just repurposing it, or refining it, or discovering that actually there's another market that needs it more than this market that I've been advertising it to. You know? And you just, you figure it out over time and you take that data and you make pivots over the years. Or like a pandemic happens and you have to make a pivot, you know? Shit happens.

So, you know, that might be it, you might have already answered this question. But I'm going to ask it anyway just in case you have a different answer. What's the most surprising thing you've learned from interviewing people on Getting Paid?

Claire: So many people are not paying themselves as much as I thought.

Rachel: Yes, it's so true. Definitely, I mean, I am a business coach that asks for receipts. Like I'm like, “Let me see your data. How much are you making? Give me your reports.” Like I actually want to know and dig into the numbers. And having done that for so many years I have learned that as well, that so many of us don't pay ourselves.

And I definitely was an entrepreneur that took years to pay myself. I mean, that was the source of every argument with my husband was like, “You keep making this money and you keep dumping it back into the business. When is it going to come into the household, you know, like up in here like to take care of these kids?” So yeah, I do think that's something that people delay for a very long time. So interesting.

And it also goes to show, right, that most of the, you know, metrics that people are sharing, all the revenue numbers people are sharing, a lot of times there's a lot of bullshit behind it. And they might be telling the truth. Like there are entrepreneurs out there who are making, you know, a million dollars, but then maybe they're paying 500,000 in affiliate fees. So it's really like 500,000 is what they have left to pay their whole team, pay themselves.

And that really changes the numbers and really changes what your profit margin looks like versus a million dollars where you're not having to pay massive amounts of affiliate fees. So I think it's really interesting to hear that. And the fact that you interview people and get more of that behind-the-scenes data that really puts a better picture on it.

Claire: Yeah, you know, this is one of the things that I can improve with the podcast, is that I don't ask everyone, “How much do you pay yourself?” I didn't ask you for, for example. I was too much of a wuss. I don't know why I thought you wouldn’t share. And you said, “Money, we can talk about money.” And I was just like, “Okay, let's talk about raising kids instead.” Come back on Rachel and get ready.

Rachel: Well, honestly to be fair, I probably would have said, “I'm not going to answer that.” Because that is the one question that people have asked me over the years and I don't tell them. Because I just feel like there's a certain point, some things are just like, that feels personal.

Claire: Yeah.

Rachel:  I give people sort of clues towards it. Like I've talked about profit margins in the past or I'll give my overall revenue numbers. Which I think I might stop doing to be honest.

Claire: Why?

Rachel: Dammit, I forgot I was talking to a podcast host. The worst. Denise Duffield-Thomas does this to me too. She’s been on the podcast twice at this point and she's always like, “Tell us why, Rachel.” And I'm like, “Come on, I'm asking the questions here.”

Why? Because I feel like there's a certain point at which it just feels so, like the numbers are so large that I'm almost like, “Is it discouraging people?”  Because it feels unrealistic for them.

Claire: Okay, I can see that. But you are the one that made me believe that I can have a million-dollar business. Like, okay, I don't need to have $100 million business. And I realize that you are now, you know, getting not closer to 100, but like 10 million or whatever. And I'm still working towards that million. But I don't know, I'm just one person but I don't feel like for the people that you're talking to, at least us Shmillys, we want to hear that.

Rachel: Yeah. Yeah, and, you know, it may be something that I always share with clients but maybe not publicly as much. I've also had people tell me like there are security issues that they start to get concerned.

Like when these numbers start to get really big then there's all these other considerations. And especially when you're becoming more and more known, you have a bigger audience, like there's other stuff that comes up that I have advisors telling me to like, “Maybe don't share as much as you normally do.” Which feels foreign to me, I'll be honest, because I'm very much an open book, it's hard for me to not share everything.

But back to what you were saying, I still to this day, I don't think I've ever, like I have shared what I used to pay myself years ago, you know? Or when I started paying myself six figures for the first time, that kind of thing. But I won't share my personal income because I'm just kind of like, that's a little too much.

Claire: Yeah, I hear that. And to be honest, Rachel, I think the people who I know are paying themselves a shit ton, I don't ask for security reasons. That came onto my radar not too long ago. And yeah, it started to scare me.

Rachel: Yeah. And it's almost kind of like if people are sharing their company revenue, those numbers can be so significant at a certain point that you're kind of like, it doesn't matter how much you're paying yourself. It's a lot, basically.

Claire: Right, exactly. I mean, you bought a fucking ranch, so like we know it's really good chunk.

Rachel: Yes. And I'll share one other anecdote, somebody said to me recently, I mean, it's why I bought this necklace that says rich bitch that I wear proudly every day. And I love it when I have like meetings with like bankers or like really conservative, older white guys. It's my favorite.

But somebody said to me, “Stop talking about how rich you are, we already know.” And my response to that is buying this necklace. And also, no, I'll talk about whatever the fuck I want. How about that?

Claire: Yeah.

Rachel: And also, I think it's, first of all, I don't think I talk about how rich I am. But I talk about my real life. And I want to show people that it's real. Like I'm not a person who is, you know, posing in front of private jets or like, you know, renting Lamborghinis. I don't give a shit about any of that crap.

You know, I think that sort of fake, you know, internet wealth, people see right through it and it's so toxic. I want people to see an example of like a normal person who didn't have money and now does so that they can see that there's a pathway for that, that doesn't involve becoming a celebrity, you know?

Claire: Yeah, I feel like that is what you have normalized, or at least started to normalize. Like your story, your background is real. It is not going from like complete rags to total riches but it's, I mean, more or less.

Rachel:  Yeah.

Claire: And so that's the story that the people who are growing up the way you grew up, or who are like dealing with, you know, all this debt because of the school they went to or whatever, that it can be different in the future. That's what you're showing. That's what you're normalizing and that it's not a fairy tale. It's just, oh, it's that special word again, effort.

Rachel: Our least favorite word, dammit. More of that damn old effort. I love it. And thank you for saying that. I mean, that is the whole goal, it's the purpose. And I think that's the other piece of this, right? Like, we all want to make money, and we also need purpose, right? We also need to feel like the work that we do in the world matters and is helping people or having an impact because otherwise it can feel very empty, you know?

Claire: Totally.

Rachel: Okay, so one last question about the podcast, is there a business owner you'd love to interview who you haven't had on your show yet? Like, who's that dream guest that's out there?

Claire: My dream guest, this is a little bit weird, it's Lainey from Lainey Gossip.

Rachel: Interesting.

Claire: She co-hosts the podcast Show Your Work. Rachel, do you listen to this podcast?

Rachel: No, I don't. But I love the phrase show your work.

Claire: Do you like celebrity like behind, not celebrity shit, but like behind the scenes of Hollywood and music?

Rachel: I'm not a big celebrity person. You know what, I'm more interested in like historical figures. I think, than celebrities. But, you know, my husband and I, when we indulge is when we are on a road trip. If we're on a road trip we'll find like a gossipy podcast or something to listen to. Or I'll like Google and like find the latest news and we'll chit chat about it. It is fun, you know, but I'm not super into it otherwise.

Claire: So, Lainey Gossip is a gossip site, but the podcast is more about the work involved in film, television, and music. Like for example, they recently had an amazing episode about the Oprah Meghan Markle and Prince Harry interview.

Rachel: Oh, I definitely want to listen to that.

Claire: Oh, you have to. I mean, just about what must have gone into that, the things that they could glean about the production of this interview just by watching was fascinating because they are from that business. Because they’re in the industry. I mean, they've had episodes about the Kardashians and their business that I found super fascinating, and I cannot stand the Kardashians.

So yeah, highly recommend. And what I want to know is like, how she makes money.

Rachel: Yes.

Claire: Obviously, from advertising on her site, it’s not the only thing she does. She's got some sponsorship on the podcast, but I really like to get into different business models and occasionally different industries. I don't do it as often as I would like because I'm not as like, you know, I'm not actually into different industries the way I am ours. But I love that podcast and I would love to have her on the show. Anybody know Lainey? I mean, like I don't want to just pitch her on Instagram.

Rachel: Yeah. I mean, if anyone out there knows Lainey, hook up Claire. Let's do this.

Claire: Please.

Rachel: Let's make this happen.

Claire: Please do.

Rachel: Let’s make this magic happen.

Claire: Maybe I should learn her last name and that will be a start.

Rachel: Let’s start with that. Yes, I think it's so interesting to dig into different business models. And, you know, I feel like it's fascinating.

And I remember as a kid, you know, being a child from a family that did not have a lot and were really struggling and on government assistance at different times. When I would encounter someone who had wealth that was obvious, I'd always be like, “How do you make your money? Like what do your parents do? What do you do?” Right? You want to know that, so I feel like that's really interesting and would be well received.

So let's talk about the club. So you are a member of We Should All Be Millionaires: The Club, I was delighted when I saw that you joined. What made you decide to join?

Claire: Rachel, I was not going to join. I was like, “I am not joining this thing. I do not need to learn anymore.” How dumb. No sorry, not dumb that’s an enablist term. Ridiculously stupid.

Rachel: Yes.

Claire: But I was also about to have my baby, right? So in June you made the call like, “Hey, I'm trying to hit this million-dollar month.” And I just, you know, hit the buy button without even looking at the page. And I have to say, Rachel, like if not for those trainings I might have had a harder, harder like postpartum experience than I did. Because I would just listen to Worthy and Glow Up while I was up in the middle of the night to nurse my baby. And then I always have a really hard time falling back to sleep if I wake up in the middle of the night, so I would fall asleep listening to your voice.

Rachel: Oh my god, I love that so much. I put you to sleep, that's great.

Claire: And like I just got really excited about what I would come back to when I was ready to go back to work. Like the projects I would start to tackle.

Rachel: Yes. Because maternity leave, I mean, that is the benefit of it is that it gives you space to thin.

Claire: Yes.

Rachel: Like there's so many monotonous tasks involved in childcare, and sometimes those monotonous tasks force you to sit your ass down, breastfeeding being one of them, I have much experience with this as well. And you just sit there and you're kind of like, “What do I do?” And you get bored with scrolling your phone, right, or whatever. Or you just can't even get into a position where you can look at your phone. And so you have time for your mind to wander or to listen to something. And I think that's such a brilliant way to use that time.

Claire: I am so glad that I had it because I don't know what I would have done. Like I just had tons of videos to go through, you know? And really, it kept me kind of sane and it got me excited about work. And I made some decisions in that maternity leave that I would not have made, I would not have made without the club. There's a lot of my business right now that looks different because of the club.

Rachel: I'm interrupting this episode to share an absolutely free training my team and I have created and we want you to be there. If you're a service provider, and you're good at what you do, and you're currently earning 50 to $100,000 per year, then you can absolutely scale to a million per year. It's not that complicated. Really. It's just a matter of thinking bigger and packaging your skills in a new way.

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Head to That's and pick the time that works for you. I cannot wait to see what power offer you create. Now back to the show.

I love that so much. And that is my next question, what things have you implemented from the club that have made a big difference in your business and life?

Claire: So I'm selling one offer. One.

Rachel: Love it. Love.

Claire: With the exception of my little $27 product that just helps me subsidize my ad costs.

Rachel: Right.

Claire: But that's like, that there's no involvement. I actually had a hard time like, how am I going to sell something? Doesn't matter. It's super easy and it's a good lead into my one offer. Does that count? Can I still say I'm just doing one because that other one doesn't count?

Rachel: Well, it sounds like you have a flagship offer.

Claire: I do.

Rachel:  You have another offer and it's like the equivalent of the cost of a book. You know, so I sort of see it as it's essentially like a lead magnet kind of situation.

Claire: Totally.

Rachel: And a way for people to get a little something from you to get a win, you know? And honestly, sometimes those are really life changing for people. Just because it's small doesn't mean it's not incredibly valuable, you know?

Claire: Exactly, exactly. But like I, you know, before I went on maternity leave, I was planning on coming back and then selling my signature ads course. And then I also had this program for add consultants, which, God when the pandemic hit everyone in their mother was like, “Please open up that program again.” I was like, “No, because I don't have the capacity.”

Rachel: Right.

Claire: But I was like, “Okay, I'll do it.” It's, you know, a way for me to have a premium priced offer. But it was so hard, Rachel, neither of those offers really took off because I was always trying to go back and forth.

Rachel: Yes.

Claire: So now I have one offer. My only focus is delivering for the clients who are in, it's a like a group hybrid experience. So there's course content but there's also coaching, people get like weekly feedback on the marketing assets that we teach them to make. And it's a delight to run. And in terms of marketing, I know everything that I'm pointing people to, everything goes back to that one thing. It’s delightful

Rachel: Yes. I love it. And I love hearing the word delightful. And, you know, I mean that is what you want. You want that single offer that is scalable and delightful, right? And profitable. And if you can get all of these three things, and sometimes it takes testing and trying different things and like, you know, doing it for a season and then being like, “Actually, just kidding, that sucks. Not delightful.”

Claire: Yes.

Rachel: Like profitable but not delightful, you know? Or sometimes delightful but not profitable. Right?

Claire: Yes, exactly. That's what I had before, I had delightful but not profitable. It was not something I was going to be able to scale.

Rachel: Right. And tell me, how has that changed things for you? Like being able to focus on one offer, streamlining your marketing, how has that changed things in your business or life?

Claire: Well, like now I don't work very much. I have all this time to think like a CEO, sorry, to be the CEO.

Rachel: Yes.

Claire: So I have hired, that's the other big thing. The big thing that I changed is that I got a full-time executive assistant, as you instructed. Now, you instructed me to do this in summer of 2019 when we happened to be sitting next to each other at a dinner. But I didn't do it then and I should have.

Rachel: And I do recall coaching you in the airport as well.

Claire: Oh, yes.

Rachel: I just wanted to add, I piggybacked on the initial coaching.

Claire: But you coach me on a completely different topic. And trust me, that has always stayed with me. I mean, I really feel like I got almost like the mastermind level support because I went to an event in Boise.

Rachel: I love it.

Claire: You know, because I happened to sit next to you and both of our flights were delayed.

Rachel: I mean, isn't that though, isn't that the best? Like that is the best thing about going to events is you get this opportunity to connect with people, and they're not busy, right? They're not in their regular busy lives so they have time. And I love doing what I do so of course, if I have time and there's someone in need I'm like, “Tell me more about your problems.”

Claire: I know. You know, you turned to me at that dinner and you were like, “So how can I help you?” I’m like, “Okay, well as I eat my like broccoli.”

Rachel: So good. So good.

Claire: But yeah, so the full-time executive assistant started this week. I am working on hiring somebody because I knew that I needed to hire somebody else, I wasn't fully clear on the role. But recently, listening to the growth scale like replay from We Should All Be Millionaires I realized like the biggest thing that I need next is somebody to take over. Not take over completely, but somebody who could take over client facing duties, coaching in the program, giving the feedback on people's assets.

Like if I want to take a vacation, Rachel, I might have another baby. I mean, yeah, I'm getting on the other side but how am I going to do that and do this program? I can't, I would have to shut it down, I would have to turn off my revenue machine if I like stopped enrolling people because I have nobody else to support my clients.

So I am working on that, I'm doing like a legit test project. So it's not going to happen right away, I'm not going to have that person next week. I have two really great candidates that I'm very excited about and I hope I don't have to like make that difficult decision. But I'm really excited for that.

Rachel: Yes, I love that. Okay, so you streamlined to one offer, you hired someone, you hired your full time assistant. I love that. And that's resulted in you working less. And how about the money, are you making more?

Claire: I started making more because of the offer. It's definitely like the most expensive thing I've sold.

Rachel: So did you raise your prices?

Claire: Well, yeah. So because I basically took a course that I was selling for like $2,000, I bundled it with other courses that I had plus all of the support I went from 2000 to 5000, right?

Rachel: Love that.

Claire: Yep. And it makes sense. Like it was, I’m not going to lie, it was hard for me to really get on board with that because like people just want to hire a fucking ads manager. And if they see a $5,000 price tag on a six-month program they’re going to be like, “Um what?” But there are people who have gotten burned by ads managers, they want to keep it in house, or they might want to hire it out later but they finally listened to people who say learn to do the ads yourself first.

Rachel: And also too, can we talk about the fact that like 5000 is for the whole six months?

Claire: Yeah.

Rachel: Yeah. I mean, where can you pay $5,000 and get six months of ad management? I feel like that's rare.

Claire: Right. No, exactly, you can't. But you do hear about like, “Oh, so and so will do it for 1200 or 1500.” But like nobody, none of those people are going to tell you what funnel to build. And like here are the templates. And here, you know, wait, actually that lead magnet that you're about to run ads to, don't. Because not actually every lead magnet. No, like this is something that sets me apart, just having this experience

Rachel: Yes, I totally agree. I have done this, I have hired Facebook ad people where I was like, “Can you give me some feedback on the funnel itself and like how it's working?” And they're like, “No, hire somebody else to do that or figure it out yourself.”

Claire: Right.

Rachel: You know, so I agree, I think that sounds like amazing value. And probably my advice might be to raise the price.

Claire: Yeah, no, that has definitely come up. I would like to be able to splash the page, the sales page, with like ridiculous testimonials. And maybe that's a mindset thing, but the program is only a couple months old, so I'm not quite ready to raise the price. I want to get people in, I want to like see their results. Because also this is ad stuff so it can be a little bit tricky.

Rachel: Yeah, for sure.

Claire: And so I get into my head about that like, “Okay, well everything should be working, but how come it's not?” Well, a fucking Apple change, or, you know, who knows what happened with the algorithm. So I'm a little hesitant on the price. But right now it feels like a really good thing, especially because like the first thing that we have people do when they come in program is do something to make their money back.

Rachel: Yes, I love that. And that's exactly how I used to structure my mastermind as well. I wanted people to make, like $25,000 minimum within the first 60 days. And it did happen for a lot of people, and particularly those who listened to me, like you did. Yay, I love it.

Claire: It took me a while, but yes.

Rachel: Exactly, like all good advice you took two years to follow it. So what would you tell someone who is thinking about joining the club?

Claire: Oh my god, it does not matter what stage of business you're In. Because I was just telling somebody, I was just like doing a voxer message about this. There are no other programs out there that have such great advice, support, everything for every stage of business.

This is why you will have $100 million company if you want it, Rachel, because you can make this thing so big, you can serve everyone. You know, like I don't know if your mastermind could really serve the beginners. I mean, the price itself maybe was a barrier, but like did they need to have, because I've heard you say like, you know, “If you were making 100,000, we could take you to a million.”

Well, people can join the club and they can get to 50, 70, 100,000 with the clear instructions. And like Glow Up. Which is one of the programs inside the club. I'd been in business for like six years when I went through Glow Up and it pointed out every single thing I had missed. Every mistake became very clear to me because of that one program.

Rachel: I love that. That makes me so happy.

Claire: Well it makes me feel like a moron that I didn't join Glow Up a long time ago, but whatever.

Rachel: Listen, you are in the club now. And I mean, that's what we are doing what the club, is trying to democratize the kinds of advice you get in $100,000 masterminds, right? Where it's behind this massive wall that is hard for you to say yes to, we want to make it easy and give you that high level advice, you know, and give you the advice that you need at the stage.

So we're about to roll into hot seat time, so I'm really excited. You are my first official hot seat; we are now adding hot seats to this podcast. So I'm going to be coaching you and asking you a couple of questions. But before we do that, I just want to let our listeners know, I want to quickly explain what you and I have been talking about.

Inside the club, we use a tool that I developed over the last 10 years from working with like 8,000 clients, right? To help them grow their businesses, by focusing on the right next step, and tackling the biggest obstacle at the stage of business you're currently at and the current revenue that you have.

So it's called the Hello Seven Growth Scale. And the levels range from zero revenue all the way up to 3 million. So it's truly customized business planning and education. And I agree there really is nothing else like that out there.

And it stemmed from people just asking me like, “If I want to go from zero to a million, what are the steps? Can you just list out all the steps?” And I'm just like, “Well shit, that seems complicated.” And I made a couple of attempts to create a list of the steps. And then finally I was like, “Actually, it's more like a graph. You know, like actually it's more like a complex spreadsheet.” And so we finally have figured out this and we're going to be rolling out a quiz and all of these things where you'll be able to take the assessment.

Claire: I want to hear about the results, like how that quiz works as a list maker.

Rachel: Oh my god, yes. I know, right? Especially from a Facebook ad perspective, I think it's a smart strategy and, of course, my marketing manager, Suzy Istvan came up with that.

So, you are currently at level five on the gross scale, which is what we call boss level. Is that right?

Claire: Yes, it is.

Rachel: Which means that your revenue is between 250,000 a year to 500,000. And so you're seeing 20 to $30,000 months at this point, and you've just hired your first full time employee, right?

Claire: Mm-hmm.

Rachel: Congratulations on all of that success.

Claire: Thank you.

Rachel: So, my question for you is, what is the biggest struggle you are currently experiencing in your business?

Claire: All right, so I mapped out the revenue I would need to pay myself what I want, which is $100,000 after taxes, like this year, okay? And to have sort of the dream team and that's it, not really any profit. Okay? That comes to about $375,000.

Rachel: Okay.

Claire: And so that's what I made my goal for the year. I was like, “I have a baby, you know, pan-fucking-demic, all that jazz.” But, Rachel, even the idea of stretching that goal to 500,000, it just makes me feel, like this is a mindset issue. It just makes me panic. So the idea of like a million-dollar revenue goal is like, “Nah. Nah, you know, I'll think about that later.” But like, why can’t I even reach for the stars? I think I'm afraid I'm not going to hit it.

Rachel: Yes, yes. And that's totally a possibility. But like you're definitely not going to hit it if you don't even try, right?

Claire: Right.

Rachel: I love this. Okay, so tell me, so basically, you're talking about $40,000 months would be 500,000 a year. And your months now are approximately what?

Claire: 30.

Rachel: Okay, so I need to make 10k a month? Are you kidding me?

Claire: I know, I know it sounds dumb.

Rachel: Oh hell no, hell no.

Claire: Like, I literally would need to enroll two more people, right?

Rachel: Yes.

Claire: But because of sales conversion rates and because of like number of visits to the page, and see these are the numbers that matter, people. Visits to the page, number of applications that come through, and then conversion rate of those applicants, it's not about just getting two more sales. It's about driving so much more traffic. And I know way better than to just think I can turn on cold ad traffic to the top of that funnel. So it feels like a lot of work to get more, you know what? It comes down to getting more visible.

Rachel: Right, correct. Which is what I was about to say. But here's my question for you. How can this be easy? Like, how can getting two more clients a month, how can you just let that be easy?

Claire: Like my stomach was just like, “Blah, I don’t know.”

Rachel: Because this is the other side, right? Some of us aren’t data nerds and we don't like to dig into the numbers. Which means that sometimes we're flying blind, right? We don't have the hard data to back up the decisions that we're making.

But the other side of being a data nerd, and I can say this because I am a data nerd, is that you can get too obsessed with the numbers. And then you over complicate things and you get lost in the weeds of the details. And you sometimes you just need to zoom back out and be like, “Okay, what's the easiest way for me to get two more clients this month?”

You know, like, maybe you don't have to solve the problem of making it sustainable forever. Maybe you just have to solve the problem of getting that first $40,000 month, seeing what that feels like and looks like, seeing what things you do differently to make that happen. And then see if you could do it again. You know?

I have to tell you, we had – God, I said I was not going to publicize this shit. Why do I get on with you and I just start telling all my business? Something about you makes your secrets spill out.

Claire: Can I put that on my about page?

Rachel: Please feel free. So anyway, last year, as you know, right, you were one of the people that helped us get there by joining the club, we had our first million-dollar month. Well, since then we've had another million-dollar month and it was way easier. Like we really didn't have to work that hard for it.

Claire: Wow.

Rachel: And so I feel like once you unlock what it feels like to have that level of revenue, you wrap your mind around it, you get comfortable with it, because some of it is really just emotional. Like you talked about, it's mindset stuff. It's like can I have that? Can I trust myself with that amount of money? Right? Can I just have money sitting in my bank account, larger sums of money just sitting there that I don't feel like I have to give a job right now, you know?

So some of it is just like experiencing it for the first time. And once you do that you realize, “Oh, I did X, Y, Z, that led to that. Let's try that again.” Right? Because people in my mastermind used to always come to me and be like, “Well, you know, last month I did a webinar, and that worked really well and I had a big month. But this month, you know, I don't know what to do to hit those same numbers.” I'm like, “Could we just do that webinar thing again? Why are we reinventing the wheel?”

Like you were saying, right, you have one offer, you're delivering to one set of clients. It's delightful and you're working way less, and you can go enjoy other aspects of your life and your business doesn't have to be all of it. Sometimes we just have to choose the simplicity and not choose working harder, you know?

Claire: Wait, but okay, here is the issue. I know that if I did a webinar in April I would hit that 40, possibly 50k month.

Rachel: Right.

Claire: But the decision to do that webinar takes away that working less. Because I would still be the one doing most of the webinar stuff because it's just a lot of writing. And for now that's me on the team.

So I think this is literally one of the things like all right, I could either just like chill at this revenue level and continue to chill in my life. Or I could pull out that effort word for a couple of weeks. I don't know why, like every launch I have done, Rachel, every webinar, it turns me into a fucking mess. And so that's why I love evergreen. It just, I don't know. So it’s that effort that I’m afraid of.

Rachel: Listen, so you have a story that you're telling that, you know, you can either chill and have a comfortable work life balance. And be comfortable with the amount of money you're making right now. Or you can, you know, make more money but you're going to have to work harder.

What if you can chill and still make that money, right? Like, let's wrap our minds around that. What would that look like? No webinar, because that feels like too much work. What could you do instead? What are the other options on the table where you could generate that revenue? And it could feel easy?

Let's just brainstorm right now. Like tell me your worst idea for getting two more clients with the least amount of effort.

Claire: I mean, I could reach back out to everyone who said like, not now, you know, since January. That's the only objection I really get is, ‘I would love to do this, but not now.” So I could reach back out to them, and I could potentially offer them a reason to do it now.

Rachel: Mm-hmm. That sounds like a great idea. Does that sound hard to you?

Claire: Just the deciding on like, what's the incentive? But that just takes –

Rachel: What if there is no incentive? What have you just email them and say like, “Hey, we're still here. We're getting busy. I have room for a couple more clients you want in?” You know? And like, if you want to throw in an incentive, you can. But like, again, the incentive adds work for you, right, potentially.

So like, if you can come up with an incentive that creates no additional work, great. If the incentive requires work, well then that violates the rules that we've set for ourselves, right, hat you can't have to work more. So like what's our easiest ways?

Here's the thing y'all, people don't even brainstorm about this. We just decide, “No, that's not possible. Oh well, I guess I'll just either be comfortable with the money I have or I'll go work really hard and be miserable.” I mean, it's like there's lots of other options on the table, you know. Let's consider some of those. Those look pretty good.

So, you know, just spending the time to brainstorm what are some simple things that you can do that would generate that those additional sales each month or simple things that better yet, your assistant could do? Somebody else on the team could do, you know?

Claire: I just turned my own ads back on today for like general list building.

Rachel: Mm-hmm.

Claire: I don't know, what can my assistant do to sell?

Rachel: Your assistant can write an email and email those folks who have expressed interest in the past but it was not the right time.

Claire: Okay, that’s true.

Rachel: And say, “Hey, Claire has availability. Are you interested now? If so, you know, just hit reply and say yeah, and I'll send you more details.”

Claire: I could probably give her the nine-word email from Glow Up.

Rachel: Exactly, that would be an option. She could craft another email. You could have her sending DMs, you could have her making phone calls. Right? Like there's lots of options to do.

Claire: Do a lot of people have mindset issues about like other people doing their DMs for them?

Rachel: Probably, but we talked about honesty at the top of this show, right? So like you're somebody who's kind of brutally honest, which is beautiful, I love it. So, you know, that might be uncomfortable for you. But I used to have Grace, who was a former salesperson for me, she would just be like, hey, this is Grace blah, blah, blah, in my DMs. You know what I mean?

Claire: Yeah.

Rachel: So like there's no rule that she has to pretend to be you. She can just say, “Hey, this is such and such from Claire Pelletreau’s team, I wanted to reach back out with you.”

Claire: That's actually a really good idea. Well done, Rachel Rodgers.

Rachel: And that's just one idea. But I think the most important thing, like what's more important than the idea, you can come up with a million ideas to get to more clients every month, right? The key thing is shifting the belief that it's hard to make another 10k.

Claire: Yeah, yeah.

Rachel: 10K a month is easy. I want you to challenge yourself to believe that 10k a month is easy and start to look for evidence of that. Like, do you have any evidence in your current life that shows you that making an extra 10k is easy? Any stories from the past? Or things that have happened?

Claire: No. No, it feels like a lot of, I mean, yeah, okay, I guess more recent history. Yeah, I mean, but then that's breaking the rule of the sell one thing, because I was going to say I could probably send a promo email for like any of my standalone courses, but I don't want to be fucking around with that.

Rachel: No, stay focused. Because how many of those do you have to sell to get to 10k versus only two of the other thing?

Claire: Yeah.

Rachel: You know, you could even do something as simple as reach out to your current clients and say, “Hey, are you loving this program? Awesome. I'm looking for two more clients. If you find me a client, you get a $500 incentive, or you get a bonus one on one with me.” You know, or whatever. And let them find your clients and say, “Oh, I have a friend who's been on the fence. Let me see if she's interested.” You know?

Claire: Yeah.

Rachel: Like sometimes it's just asking for help. It's just like, what are the simplest most basic ass ways? Sometimes your digital marketing mind might get in the way because you make it complicated when it doesn't need to be.

Claire: Right. Yeah, you know what I do, Rachel, when I think about big goals, like an annual goal? I think I have to find the answer that's going to work every single month without fail, you know?

Rachel: Yes, where we focus on making it scalable before we even ever accomplish it in the first place. Yes, and that drives me nuts. Just try doing it. Like just try making it happen once. It's not always going to be –

I mean, this is the advice that, you know, people who have built 100-million-dollar businesses give to startups or software companies, tech companies that are trying to get to that monthly recurring revenue number that they need to sustain themselves. And it's like, maybe your number is, and usually they're working with larger numbers, so maybe the number is $500,000 a month.

And it's like, don't stress if 350 of it is recurring, and the other 150 you got to go chase every month, cool. You're getting there, you're hitting that 500, it's going to get easier, right? And you're going to come up with ways to make it happen and make it simpler, you know?

So, you know, just evidence that like there was a time where you used to struggle to have a $20,000 month. Now you’re having $30,000 months that you're not working hard for.

Claire: Right, absolutely. Yeah.

Rachel: Okay, so there's something else that I think is actually the bigger, I think the bigger, more sustainable, scalable, long term way to have two more clients a month is actually hiring someone.

Claire: Yeah, no, that's the thing. The next hire is the person who would write all the emails for that fucking webinar. She would write the landing page, like I would basically show up. And I'm so looking forward to the time when that happens because I really believe that we're probably going to do more than, you know, like 10k more, but probably move very quickly.

Rachel: So that's where I would focus your energy, you're at that stage where you need to really have marketing completely off of your plate. Marketing and sales you want off your plate altogether

Claire: Really, altogether?

Rachel: Yes, the only thing you want to be doing is like if you want to show up for a webinar, if you want to show up to do the podcast and you enjoy it, do it. But even that you could get off of your plate if you wanted to. Like there's nothing, there's no rules that you can't have somebody else run the webinar.

Claire: True. Wow. Okay. So but here's the one thing that I want to say about hiring that was really frustrating. And it's a little bit less frustrating now, but you don't have control over the timeline. Right? I mean, in this case like I now know the test project that I have set up, the way that I did it because of what I wanted it to be it couldn't be done in a week.

Rachel: Right, no hiring takes time. Which is why I’d start now.

Claire: Oh no, I'm in, I'm there.

Rachel: Yes.

Claire: So I'm glad that I'm there. And it really was because of a walk that I took listening to that Hello Seven Growth Scale recording.

Rachel: So this is what I want to say even if you're not there, the time to start is now. And the reason why is because, you know, usually we are, especially when we're just getting started with hiring, we're hiring from behind, right? Like we already need that person and now we got to go get them which takes lift that you're pointing out, right? It takes time to find the applicants. Hiring is not a fast process if you want to wind up with the right person.

Claire: So then let me ask you this, what's my next hire? Because if I'm, you know, in the process I'll have somebody by the end of April for sure. But like maybe I should get on hiring the next person before I really need them.

Rachel: Correct. That is the exact point that I'm making. So you're going to have your client facing person who's going to help with the client facing work by the end of April?

Claire: Well, so the client facing person, because of the number of people currently in the program, when he or she first comes on they're still going to be doing writing for the business, marketing for us. I guess, as the program grows, they're going to have less and less time for the marketing in the business.

Rachel: Okay, so here's the thing, I think your client facing person is not your marketing person necessarily. I think you hire someone to do the job you need them to do. We do this as business owners all the time and employees hate this, where we're like, “Hey, do seven different jobs.” And it's like they're running around with like, you know, spinning from one thing to the other and they can't be great at anything.

It's sort of the same principle of having one offer. It's like let your employee have one focus and be really great at that. And then you can hire them for strength in that, for their ability to connect with customers and really help them see the steps they need to take and be available to them.

The type of person who's really great with clients is usually like, maybe a high on the disk, there's somebody who loves being, you know, working with people talking to people, doing that kind of people facing work. Somebody who loves marketing, like my marketing manager is like, “Don't put me in front of clients.” I mean, she does teach from time to time, which she enjoys, but she definitely would not want to be doing a call every week.

And I used to try to do that, like in my mastermind the people who were doing my marketing were also coaching my clients on marketing. And that split their time and their focus and it was stressful for them. It seemed like oh, it makes sense. But those who are good at marketing don't mean that they are good at teaching marketing, you know? Those are two different skill sets.

So I would hire, like the person who's doing client facing work let them do that and hire a marketing assistant or marketing coordinator to actually run your marketing. So that way you can say to them, “Hey, I'd love for you to come up with, you know, five ways for us to get at least two more clients a month in the program. Come back to me with ideas next week and we'll talk about it.”

Let them strategize, and then let them execute the strategy, and let them have the win. Right? And then. “Okay, great. That was awesome. Now let's see if we could add two more to that. Why not? Let's try it. And let's try that again.” Or maybe, “That was cool. But I think it took a little more work. Let's try this other strategy that seems simpler.” Right? And like, let that be their job.

Because the thing is, this is the beauty of employees versus contractors, right? You're not just hiring someone to work a to-do list and take some basic things off your plate.

You're hiring them to strategize, you're hiring them to solve problems. So here's a problem, I don't have the solution. I have some ideas about the solution, but I'd love for you to come up with a solution, here you go. And then they are super satisfied in their work because they get to solve problems too. And they get to win. They get to be creative, come up with solutions.

Also, they’re in the trenches. Like your marketing coordinator is going to see everything happening on social media, they're going to see everything happening in all of your various marketing channels. They're going to be clued in in a way that you are not because you're the CEO looking at everything, and they're only looking at that one thing. And also because you have your own thoughts about your own work, and you don't see your own stuff as well.

You know what I mean? Like, we all got our own stuff about ourselves, and about what's good enough and all of that. So they'll be able to come back to you and be like, “Oh, people are saying this, we need to do this.” And it's like, “Okay, great. Let's do it.” And they can tell you better.

I mean, it was a member of my team that pointed out that we needed to have something like the club. And because of that we created the club, but I wouldn't have known that. I wasn't talking to him to potential clients every day, they were.

So I think if you want a sustainable way to have two more clients a month that is the move to make, is hire the marketing coordinator.

Claire: Well it’s going to have to be three more clients with this additional team member.

Rachel: Well there you go.

Claire: But yeah, that feels doable. Rachel, it feels like we're back in the Boise airport and you are like blowing my mind.

Rachel: What, with the strategizing instead of working the to-do list?

Claire: No literally, well yes, the strategizing. But also the idea of like I could actually have a business that could pay for somebody who is just client facing, and somebody else who is actually like getting the word out about my podcast. Because guess what, you love that show, nobody listens to it. Because I never tell people when there are new episodes because it's another fucking thing to-do on my list. But nobody listens.

Rachel: Exactly. And your marketing coordinator is going to see all of these opportunities. And they're going to say, “Hey, I got this.” You know?

Claire: Yep. I am not tearing up over here, there's something in my eye.

Rachel: I love this so much. Yes, exactly. And here's the thing, we have businesses, they are not finite, right? So it's like you do the math. I mean, that's the beauty of having one offer is that you can easily do the math of like, how much is this marketing coordinator going to cost? Okay, how many more people do I need to sell into this program in order to afford the marketing coordinator? Great, that sounds doable. Let's do it.

And guess what? Sometimes it does mean taking the risk, right? Sometimes it's like, all right, I'm going to commit to that first month or two of, you know, of that person’s salary. And it's a little scary, it might be a little dicey. Like, you might go from that, you know, let's say you're paying yourself 100,000, you might pay yourself 80,000 for a month or two, because you want to fit them in.

Claire: Right.

Rachel: But then suddenly, you're now paying yourself 160, you know? And it doubles because they're generating it. Just think about what a full-time person, spending 40 hours a week thinking about how to sell your shit, what that's going to look like. And how much more that's going to bring in.

Claire: Okay, whatever you say Rachel

Rachel: It's going to be great. So what I would do next is draft the job description, get it out there, start looking for that person. And here's another tip, do not hire a marketing director.

Claire: Oh, fuck no.

Rachel: You don’t need a marketing director yet. Because you know how people love to hire somebody with fancy titles. And I'm like fancy titles come with fancy paychecks. Like, let's actually start with a marketing assistant, or a marketing coordinator. And that's the highest that I would go and it would depend on their experience. And let's start and let's see what they can do.

And when they prove that they’re a marketing manager or marketing director, great, I'm happy to promote you, right? You don't have to work here for five years to get promoted. I'll promote you within a year, right, if you're showing me that that's who you really are.

And if they're that great, they're going to need an assistant in a couple months. Which is great, because they'll be helping you to bring in the revenue and they'll be owning that metric. And that's the beautiful thing, like then you can assign metrics to different people in the team. This is your metric to own, this is the KPI that you own, key performance indicator for anybody that doesn't know what a KPI is. That's the KPI you own assistant. This is the KPI you own marketing coordinator. This is the KPI you own client facing person, you know?

And so it's like everybody owns their piece, you don't have to own all of it. And what you have to own is managing these people and helping them to be great.

Claire: Perfect. I have the job description already.

Rachel: I love it.

Claire: Awesome.

Rachel: So good. I'm so excited for you. You're going to make way more than 10k a month.

Claire: Yep, you're not wrong.

Rachel: And you know what? You can also have your assistant send that email, get a couple extra clients for this month, pad the savings account so that you have the money to pay the marketing coordinator or whatever, you know?

Claire: Yeah.

Rachel: Just so you have that little, bringing in extra money when you're hiring a lot of people it just helps to make the heart palpitations go down.

Claire: Cool. All right. I'm going to.

Rachel: You feeling good?

Claire: I’m feeling good. I was going to say I'm feeling like the luckiest person in the world that I just got free coaching like this, again.

Rachel: You are. You are just in the right place at the right time. I love it. But honestly, I love coaching you because you actually take the advice. Coaching somebody who never takes your advice is really annoying, and then continuing to struggle. It's like, “Um, could you just do what I said so that you can see those results? I want to help you.”

Claire: I have one question for you.

Rachel: Yes.

Claire: I got on like the annual plan for the club without a second thought because I want access to the next retreat. When is it going to be? I mean, I know obviously in person shit is like questionable.

Rachel: Yes.

Claire: But it's going to happen right? There's going to be shmilly in person possibilities?

Rachel: Absolutely. I mean, I didn't buy a ranch to not have events. So I'm hoping, maybe this fall probably would be the soonest, like September October. And if things are looking good by then, then hell yes. And if not then definitely in early 2022. I'm hoping that by then, it's got to be over by then, right? Like dear god almighty.

Claire: Dear god almighty. All right, save me a seat. Whenever you like pick the date, just one seat for Claire.

Rachel: I'll just go ahead and tag you in that post and be like, “Claire, just grab your seat.”

Claire: Yeah, here's your link to pay.

Rachel: I love it. I love it. Well, I always enjoy talking to you. This has been so fun. I'm so proud of you and so happy for you and all of your success. Now go make your million dollars because it's time.

Claire: Okay, thank you.

Rachel: You're so welcome.

Claire: You're the best.

Rachel: Thank you so much for listening. And thank you to Claire for joining us and showing up and being so awesome and open, and sharing the details of the struggle with us.

If you want to be a club member and get access to trainings, community group coaching, and maybe even your chance at a hot seat, We Should All Be Millionaires the club is for you. The doors will be opening again soon so head to to get your name on the wait list so you can be the first to hear about your chance to snag a seat in our incredibly special community of bad ass business builders.

That's for all the details to get your name on that wait list. I hope to see you there.

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