118. Creating a Million Dollar Offer with Rachel Rodgers

Rachel: I’ve heard it called, actually, grateful but not satisfied, right? And it’s such a great way to describe that feeling, right? Like I feel gratitude for all that I have and all that I am and all that I’m experiencing in this world. And I want more. There can be those two things coexisting at the same time. And I think sometimes people almost need permission to be like, “Am I allowed to want more?” And it’s like, yes boo boo, you can have more, it’s okay.

You want to make more money? You are in the right place. Welcome to the Hello Seven Podcast. That’s seven, as in seven figures. I’m your host, Rachel Rodgers. On this show, it’s all about you and your money. We talk about how to maximize your earning potential, how to make better financial decisions, and how to find your million-dollar idea, that genius business idea that’s going to make you a whole lot more money. I’m here to show you how to expand your income and expand your confidence, power, and joy.

If you are a woman, a person of color, a queer person, if you’re a person living with a disability, or you don’t fit the stereotypical image of what a millionaire is “supposed” to look like, this show is for you. No matter who you are or what you do for a living, you could be earning a lot more than you currently do. Your journey to wealth starts right here.

Rachel: Hello, hello. Welcome back to the Hello Seven podcast. I am delighted to be here with one of the amazing clients and club members that we have in our community here, Annie Sanchez. She is a visionary and healer behind the business Mariposa Strategies. Thank you so much for being here with us today, Annie.

Annie: Thank you for having me. I’m so excited to be here.

Rachel: Yay! I love that. Okay, so in your own words, tell us what do you do?

Annie: Ah, that question.

Rachel: Mm-hmm.

Annie: I’m a feeler.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: I am an intuitive feeler. I am a navigator of change through and through, throughout my whole life, through the business, with clients. I’m the queen of the in between. I navigate grief, I navigate identity, navigate career. And through my work as a coach, as a healer, as a visionary guide, I help people who are going through extraordinarily big change, find possibility in those really subtle moments that matter most that often get brushed over when we’re going through something so massive.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: And so I see myself as a guide, as a strategic and emotional thought partner.

Rachel: Yes. Okay. And what kind of people hire you?

Annie: There’s been lots of different kinds of people over the years.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: The very best, the ones who we really, really get each other. They may not know it, but they’re highly sensitive. Some are bonafide HSPs.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: They are Cancer risings. They are Virgo risings with like a water moon. They are introverts. They are INFJs. I have a lot of INFJs, a lot of INFPs. They are people who are literally changing the game across the country with social justice, anti-violence, access to reproductive healthcare, and education for indigenous communities. They’re changemakers, and their strategic as fuck. And often what they’re most known for, and usually they come to me because they’re like, “I need a strategic thought partner.”

And then I’m like, hold on. Let me look at your chart. What are your Clifton strengths? Let’s look at some of your hard and heart data. I’m big on data, I’ve been collecting data since day one.

Rachel: Yes, I’m big on data too.

Annie: I love data. It’s another strategy.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: It’s another tool for implementing strategy.

Rachel: It’s all information, right, that helps us make decisions.

Annie: Yeah. So my people are, they’re visionary, they’re strategic, they’re known for that. They’ve been holding it all. They’re EDs, they’re VPs, they’re execs, and they’re like squishy, squishy sensitive people that may or may not even realize how sensitive they actually are because they haven’t been able to demonstrate it in their lives. In their professional lives and even in their partnerships, husbands, wives, partners.

Rachel: Yes. Do they tend to be activists or are they usually working for for profit organizations?

Annie: The majority of my clients are from the nonprofit sector or philanthropy, like big national philanthropy.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: Predominantly people of color. Predominantly women identifying, though I have a few beloved white women who come to me as referrals from folks of color that I love and respect. And they’re literally giving out money to the causes that impact our lives.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: They are the ones creating policies that make it possible to access all the resources that we need. So it’s like a grassroots, kind of nonprofit kind of community of people, though there are some for profit corporate people in there.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: But I’m like, “Who are you really?” I often say it’s not a real conversation unless one of us is crying. I want to make them cry so then I know.

Rachel: This is hilarious to me because I’m always talking with Robert and Susan, my closest friends, about how I am not a crier. And they are the criers in the community.

Annie: He’s a crier.

Rachel: Robert is, yes. He cries, Susan cries, they will cry at the sunset or something really beautiful, right? And I’m like, I also appreciate that beauty, but it does not move me to tears. It’s so interesting, and so we laugh about that all the time. And of course I cry, every human cries.

Annie: Sure.

Rachel: But I’m just not, like yesterday we were recording an episode and they both started crying at the same time. But I also think, interestingly enough, about the people that we’re talking about, the people who might be sensitive but are not allowed to be, right?

I think there are a lot of folks who almost, like people think they don’t feel or they think they can throw anything at them. Especially people of color, especially as Black women, for sure, it’s always like, what else can we dump on them? It’s fine, they can handle it, that kind of thing. There’s such a resiliency there that it’s like it’s unexpected resiliency. And I think sometimes we take on that sort of hardened core, right? We can take on that like I can do anything, hulk smash.

Annie: 100%. But the truth is, hearing you say that you don’t cry often, it doesn’t come the way that it comes to people like Susan and Robert, or maybe even me. I cry every day. I literally cry every single day. And years ago, before I really, really started to understand who I am, I can remember feeling like my closest people didn’t fully get me.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: Like they thought that they could be sarcastic with me in a way that would always hurt my feelings. And I’m like, why am I still taking it? And then they’d get on my case even more that I was being too sensitive to this, to that, because I’m also the Annie who gets shit done.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: I am the organizer, I’m the rallyer, I make things happen.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: But at the deepest, deepest, deepest core, I am guided by – Like I was crying this morning as I was coming over here. I was thinking about little Annie, and my partner Matt, little Matt. When I think of them as little kids playing here together on the carpet. And how through space and time and like a potato farmer’s son from the Midwest, as white as they come, girl from the southwest, how we found each other as people who are meant to heal and grow and support each other.

So I think about what does little Rachel, she’s down there playing with us. The three of us are down there playing with us. Like elder ancestor Rachel with her hand at your back, on your shoulder. Like they are the ones guiding and you’re just the body that is here now who is living out what they’re asking of you.

Rachel: Yes, exactly. I think all of us have an assignment. And we just know intuitively what that assignment is.

Annie: Yes.

Rachel: And when it comes to identity, I agree. I think sometimes it’s like, oh, because you’re the person that gets things done, you also can’t cry every day. And it’s like, no, those things can go together, right? There’s so much assumption about identity, and I think that is the source of so many issues, right? Maybe all of them, right?

Annie: I think so.

Rachel: Is a saying like you are this, so you can’t be that. You are this, so you must be that, right? And just assigning this is who we are and sort of putting our identities in boxes in so many different ways. And then we put ourselves in those boxes, right? We say like, oh, I’m supposed to show up as this. I’m supposed to look this way. A CEO looks like this and acts like this. Or this type of person does this or does that. And it’s like, no, no, no, we get to be all of the things at the same time. You know what I mean? If we want to.

Annie: 100%. And I think one of the things that is such a devastation to really, really understanding who we are at our core, is thinking about it too much. We don’t feel enough.

Rachel: I agree.

Annie: Like our thinking mind, our mind is only one layer of who we are. I’m currently studying a wisdom practice called Yoga Nidra. I initially was studying, one of my teachers, Octavia Raheem. I’m working with her teachers Tracee Stanley and Chanti Tacoronte-Perez to understand how we enter into a place that is beyond our body as we know it, and our mind as we know it. Because those are just two parts of who we are.

All the old wisdom traditions of our ancestors, of indigenous peoples, of Black people from the motherland. We have been so conditioned by whatever this place is to just position ourselves to talk about things in a way to think, think it, think it, think it, think it, think it through as a way to articulate why we are the way we are, why we’re qualified for the thing. And it completely eradicates the real heart of who we are.

I call them the sacred sciences, the data that I collect. The data that makes us who we are, that makes you who you are, that makes me who I am, that makes all these people that make this production possible, who they are at their deepest, deepest, truest core. And it’s like once you get a taste of it and are like, “Oh, shit, I’m different than what I thought I was. I am not her. I am not them anymore.” There’s like a yearning to get back.

Like I want to keep going to that place of learning, that place of feeling that has nothing to do with thinking, that has nothing to do with traditional strategy, but is in fact the motherfucking strategy for growing our businesses, getting into the positions that we want, raising our families the way that we want to, giving land back, acquiring what was never given to us, what we were never given access to.

Yeah, it is so much more about feeling than anything else for me. I would be so curious to know what does make you cry. You know?

Rachel: Yeah. Well, I’m not going to share that here.

Annie: I know, of course. But it’s like that’s the stuff.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: And you know what it is.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: You know what it is.

Rachel: Exactly. And there’s definitely plenty of times that I’m moved. I cry on calls and I cry at events. And I think the things that make me cry is honestly seeing the manifestation of the work that I’m trying to create in the world. When I see that world starting to emerge, that’s what moves me and gets me really, it gets me excited, it makes me cry. I feel all the things, right?

Annie: Yeah.

Rachel: But I agree, I think feeling is such an important part of business strategy, right? Like understanding your desires. And that’s why I talk to people about that, that’s why I included things about that in my book. Because I think knowing what you want, knowing how to tap into your desires, knowing how to tap into what is your assignment on Earth, what is the role that you’re here to play and how can you continuously step into that more and more and be on your mission.

Because that’s when you feel aligned, I feel. In my personal experience and my experience coaching thousands of people, it’s like we feel aligned when we’re doing the work that we feel we’re meant to be doing, you know?

Annie: I completely agree. And what I know to be true for me is that the work evolves.

Rachel: Oh, of course.

Annie:  As we grow, as we become.

Rachel: And why does it evolve, right? It evolves because we’re like, okay, now I’m feeling led here.

Annie: Yeah, it’s a feeling thing.

Rachel: Yeah, it is a feeling thing.

Annie: You can’t quite put words, there might not be words for it. And it’s like, I don’t know why, but when you know, you know, you know. 

Rachel: Exactly. And taking steps towards things. I think that’s one of the things that I wish people would do more often, is take more risks.

Annie: Oh my gosh.

Rachel: Be more willing to say yes to the things that scare you that you feel led to. Sometimes you don’t have a logical reason as to why am I doing this? I don’t know why I’m doing this, right? But it’s like, I know for some reason, I need to do this. And so I’m going to go do it even though logically it makes no sense. On paper it’s a disaster. Sometimes that’s what it feels like, and yet Martin Luther King Jr. talked about seeing the first step. You don’t see the whole first staircase, you see the first step and you have to be willing to take that step.

And especially, I think, as people who are entrepreneurs, we’ve just signed up for a life of risk. And the truth of it is even people who have jobs, right? There’s no guarantees for anybody ever. So it’s like, how can we learn to dance with that risk and be excited about it and mitigate it where we feel we need to, and do what we need to do to keep ourselves safe, but still be taking those steps? There’s so much that we don’t do because of fear and risk. And I’m like, no, no, no, no.

I’m not saying throw yourself at all risks at the same time. You’ve got to do what feels good to you, but you’ve also got to be willing to stretch yourself and push, because that’s how we birth, right? It’s like there’s a pushing and trust me, it doesn’t feel good when you’re in that moment, but it’s like you know that’s what you’re here to be doing, right? And you’re birthing a new life, it feels like a push. Everything doesn’t feel delightful, you know?

Annie: Absolutely. I think there’s a couple of things. I think I remember my mom, I mean, I think all moms say this, that you forget what childbirth is like so that you will do it again because why would you ever go through it again given how hard it is and how painful? And I think there is something really important about the risk when it comes to having the courage to take the risk.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: I mean, so many of the people in my community, those that have been with me from the beginning, who have been watching me grow this thing from day one, coming to my little $45 luxury half-day retreat that I basically paid them to come to. But I didn’t even care. I’m like there’s so many people in my orbit who are wanting to make some kind of a shift, and are super, super scared.

And so yes, it is about we do have to push ourselves. And it’s about cultivating a sense of safety.

Rachel: Yeah.

Annie: So that when you do take the risk, you’re not risking your home. Because a lot of people are literally like, “Well, do I pay to come to this thing, and then I literally might not have money to pay rent?”

Rachel: Trust me, I relate to that.

Annie: Like fully, fully.

Rachel: I’ve been there.

Annie: Yes.

Rachel: I remember having a friend that I knew who sold a piece of furniture in her house so she could go to an event, right? That’s the kind of thing we were doing. I was calling a family friend and saying, “Hey, will you lend me the money? If you lend me the money, I will do these things.” You know what I mean? And then it’s like, okay, I have the money for the ticket. Now, what can I do to get the money for the, you know, I have the entry to get into the event, but I don’t have the transportation to get there. So how do I get that, right?

And it was just like, trust me, I get those challenges, for sure.

Annie: Yeah, it’s the risk, but then weaving in our sense of creativity because at the end of the day, people of color are creative.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: To navigate this life, to find ways of doing things that are more than just ho hum, like status quo, boring, ordinary. Because I know that we’re not about that. It’s no mistake that I’m sitting here with you, we both have dreams that are bigger than us.

Rachel: Yes, and I think there are things that are ordinary to one, but extraordinary to another as well.

Annie: Fully. Fully. God, I was just reading something recently, I can’t remember who it was now. But about how it’s so easy to want to go after the things, the achievements, the whatever, the material things and the immaterial, the people who we aspire to be like, or we admire that they’ve done. But then it’s like actually, if that’s not for you, are those the risks that you’re trying to take? It’s like going back to the feeling.

Rachel: Right.

Annie: What is it that you want? What is your version of extraordinary?

Rachel: Right, what is your version of success? Exactly.

Annie: Because it can be so modest. One of my dearest, most beloved friends, Kira, she’s like, “I’m not fancy. I’m happy with a modest, simple house. I just want to own my house.”

Rachel: And owning your house is extraordinary in some communities.

Annie: It’s a big deal.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: I’m like, “Okay, but I’m going to fly you on my private plane in the future.” She was like, “But don’t do it too often because of greenhouse gasses.” And I’m like, right, like her extraordinary is different than my extraordinary.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: And it’s not without judgment, it is with love. But feeling into why we go after the things that we do, and then getting creative about making them happen. Like selling a piece of furniture, like actually looking at your numbers to understand what you actually, actually can do or not do.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: And recognizing when, actually, I can’t right now. It is okay if you can’t, because there’s always going to be another opportunity. So pushing, but knowing when there’s a limit, because being able to tap into our sense of safety when, historically, we have not been safe. We don’t have property, we don’t have homes, land was taken away from us. And so it’s like I can’t risk not having a sense of home and belonging.

I love when people in my little world, when they’re able to connect with the thing that they didn’t even realize was the thing for them. And it is deeply, deeply guided by something that doesn’t even have words. It has a texture, it has a shade, it has a feeling. But they don’t necessarily have words for it because not everything needs words.

Rachel: Yes, and we have to communicate. So how do you balance that, right? It’s like, okay, I do this really deep work, or I have this really deep vision that I’m feeling my way into and I understand it. But now, in order to sell this idea to people to get them on board and get them joining this community or joining this movement, or to get people excited to pick up my book and go on this journey with me, or to come to your retreats, whatever that thing is.

It’s like, we need communication in order to make that happen. And so how do we take the things that are here and the things that are in your heart, how do you take that and put that into words? And recognize that is definitely part of it, right? That’s part of the journey.

Annie: It is my challenge.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: This is my challenge.

Rachel: And why do you find it challenging?

Annie: Because I am both extraordinarily heart centered. Like, I literally make decisions based on my astrological chart, my tarot cards, my journals, my dreams, my meditations, my rest practice. And I’m strategic as fuck. Like I straddle both spreadsheet brain and spirituality.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: And so when I hear about, you know, talking about healing as an example. I’m like, yes and. When I hear about strategy, when I hear about thinky, thinky, brain based action, I’m like, yes, but. I am both. I am really, truly – I’m double water earth, thank God for my earth moon. It’s all sloshing around.

I always tell my people, I’m currently wrapping up a group program that I’ve been running. Currently 11th cohort after five years, beloved, beloved. I love the community. I love the people, the Women of Color Culture Club, shout out to all of them all over the world. And it’s like I always tell them, just go with me on this ride. We are going to land. This plane is going to land. It might not make sense, because it doesn’t always make sense. We’re stirring shit up. We’re sloshing around in the water.

Rachel: Yeah, and creativity, and even movement and making something happen gets messy in the middle.

Annie: Yes.

Rachel: And we have to be okay with it. It’s not a linear, very logical path.

Annie: Right. And because what I do is – Like what you do is so clear. You help people make more money, period, right?

Rachel: Well, I have a clear way of communicating it.

Annie: Yes, that’s true.

Rachel: But there’s a lot of different ways that it manifests itself, right?

Annie: Right. Right, right, right. And so people are like, “What do you do? What’s the thing?” And I’ve asked my people, I’ve had focus groups conducted, so much data collected, survey traditional, you know, that kind route to gather info. People are like, “I go to Annie, for like entrepreneurship things.” Like people want to know about business, I’m a certified business advisor.

So they’ve known me as a business advisor even before Mariposa Strategies. And I also have people who come to me when they are so extraordinarily overwhelmed and feel like everything is crumbling down on them, and they don’t even know what move to make. And I’m like, we’re going to land your plane. Trust me, we’re going to get there.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: And I know, like my client work is gorgeous. I feel so proud of myself. When I think back to that $45 workshop back in 2019, oh my God, I still remember the very first registration that came through. That woman, she became a part of the Culture Club later, who’s in her mid 50s and was like, “Annie, this has changed my life.”

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: I love when people are like, “This is changing my life.” I’m not changing their life, they’re changing their lives because they’re receptive to the process. Client work is great, but I’m realizing that as I evolve, that so is my business. And that I am getting to a place where it is less about selling services, and more about helping more people, because the one to one – I’ve done the one to one, I’ve done the group, I’ve done the retreats. It’s like sacred, it really is.

I remember hearing a coach say once that, like they’re big time too, and they’re like, “I’m always going to do one to one work, it helps keep me in integrity.” It’s like there’s something about that one to one connection. I love that. I love being there with clients. And I’m like, all right, Annie has evolved.

I’m a different person than I was five years ago when I started this thing. I’m a different daughter, I’m a different sister, I’m a different partner than I was three years ago, two years ago, one year ago. And so I’m like, how do I talk about healing and strategy as the thing? They are the marriage.

It’s about finding possibility in the moments that matter most through a combination of data, like literally looking at individual heart data, individual personal, hard data like Clifton strengths and all of the assessments and whatnot, and really understanding why you are the way you are. That is the thing that people keep coming back to me like, oh my God, what you’re doing has helped me leave my partner, move across the country, start my business, close my business, do this. I don’t help anyone with one particular thing. It’s more expansive and encompassing.

Rachel: Well, but I think there’s a common thread in all of that.

Annie: Tell me what you hear, please.

Rachel: So because I don’t think healing and strategy can’t coexist.

Annie: Right.

Rachel: They clearly do.

Annie: Right.

Rachel: So it’s just like you literally can just use those two words. Here’s the thing I think is most important, is to understand when we are communicating something, why are we doing it? And who are we talking to? And what is it that we’re trying to convey? You being an evolving human, and friend, and all of the roles that you play, all of that does not have to be in the sentence that describes what you do.

Because your clients don’t necessarily need to know all of that, or the people who are out there that you’re here to serve, right? You want to help more people, I’m assuming, yes?

Annie: Yes, definitely.

Rachel: Okay. So then in order to help more people, one of the ways to speed that process up, and I think that’s one of the questions that you had, is like how can we succinctly say, “Here’s when you know you need me. Here’s what I can help you with.” And, for example, there’s so much about my life that’s like, in my friendships, or the fact that I love to travel, or the fact that I love to dance, right?

Like so many different things about me that don’t play their way into my Instagram bio, right? Or they’re not the first thing that you’re going to see on the website because it’s not serving my client to hear everything that I am. It’s serving them to hear what I can do for them, right? Because we’re all inherently selfish in some way, right?

Annie: Yeah.

Rachel: And so it’s like your people who are coming to you, or who land on your website, or who hear about your work, they want to know, okay, what can you do for me? You know what I mean? What comes up when you think about having a one sentence thing that describes what you can do for folks? What comes up for you when you think about that?

Annie: I help people move through big change.

Rachel: Well, there you go, right? And so that’s perfect. And that’s the thing, it’s like we’re always looking for what are the commonalities between the different types of clients that I serve and the different types of results I’ve created for them, right?

So helping someone navigate through a divorce, or a big move, or a career shift, or stepping into entrepreneurship, or growing their business, it’s like big changes are in all of it, right? That’s the common thread. And it’s like, okay, and when do people come to you? Like what’s that moment that they realize, okay, I need to go talk to Annie?

Annie: I’d say this, for lack of a better way to describe it, it’s like there’s a complacency or like a contentment that’s not – Like they feel just content and are yearning for something more. Back in the day it was overwhelmed people.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: And I love my overwhelmed people. I used to be an overwhelmed person, I get it. And these days there’s a, like my shit is together and I’m realizing that I can’t get to where I want to be, usually on a spiritual level. Sometimes it’s like, I just got promoted to VP of my organization. I don’t even know who I am.

But it is really like, yeah, it’s either I’m content and I’m yearning, I have a hunger for something more. I don’t just want to be content, I want to be inspired.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: Or, holy shit, something is changing and I need an anchor. I need a thought partner.

Rachel: Yes, to like talk through who I’m becoming and on what’s next for me.

Annie: Yeah, it’s a very strategic and emotional thought partnership, like both and.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: 100%.

Rachel: Exactly. I love that. And I think those are clear ways to describe the work that you do, right? Like making it clear you’re on the verge of a big shift. I call that, and I’ve heard it called actually, grateful but not satisfied, right? And it’s a great way to describe that feeling, right? Like I feel gratitude for all that I have, and all that I am, and all that I’m experiencing in this world, and I want more. There can be those two things coexisting at the same time, right?

And I think sometimes people almost need permission to be like, “Am I allowed to want more?” And it’s like, yes, boo boo, you can have more. It’s okay, right?

Annie: Because the one thing is that everything is always changing. It’s always changing. Yeah.

Rachel: Yes, I think we’re designed to desire more because it’s like when we desire more, we create things that serve.

Annie: And we survive.

Rachel: Right.

Annie: We keep surviving.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: It’s literally momentum building.

Rachel: Exactly.

Annie: We create things that help other people. We get creative about how we’re living our lives so we don’t fall into deep depression or we know how to pull ourselves out when we get there.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: I think about back in the day, I didn’t know what I didn’t know, because I didn’t know. And now I’m like, I’ve got the data to look at. A lot of therapists come to me. A lot of other coaches. A lot of people who have become coaches. And it’s like healers need healers, coaches need coaches, doctors need doctors, hairdressers need hairdressers, you know? 

And so I’m like, ah, there’s something there about the desire to help people and recognizing that in order to help people, we also have to help ourselves, and we don’t know it all. We don’t know it all. And so being able to lean on people.

So people come to me because I can get into the thinky spreadsheet, whiteboard it out place with them, but I always bring it back to feeling. Like deep, deep, deep. Like we are peeling, peeling, peeling it back.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: Heart and head, completely.

Rachel: Yes. And I completely relate to that.

So, a question. So why do you say, like you said, one of the challenges in your business is stepping into your thought leadership more, spreading it. Tell me a little bit about that.

Annie: Well, so it’s like you were saying, I know how to talk about what I do. I help people in a lot of different ways, but we know that Rachael Rodgers helps people make money. And I’m like, “Okay, what is it that Annie does?” I’ve been sitting with this since day one. Like how do I talk about the thing that I do, which of course, is always evolving.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: And so I like thought leadership. Of course, this phrase is so used, for lack of a better word, we’re just saying thought leader. I’m like, am I a thought leader? Leader on what? I know that I have a special kind of magic that helps people to unlock possibilities. I know that. I’ve seen it. I’ve seen it. I’ve seen it with so many people, hundreds and hundreds of people at this point. And I’m like how do I, this feels kind of like a gross word, but like package that?

Rachel: Yes. Yeah, why does it feel gross to package it?

Annie: It feels more sacred than it does a commodity.

Rachel: Yes, does saying package make it a commodity?

Annie: Somehow it does. I don’t know why.

Rachel: I don’t think it actually does. I think that’s just a belief, right? Like, that’s a thought.

Annie: Right, right.

Rachel: But it’s not necessarily true, right? Because someone can buy a package of services from you or a retreat or whatever. It’s all an offer, package, whatever, you can use that word. And they’re going to still get this sacred experience.

So it’s not necessarily making it less than to package it. What you’re doing when you say package, is you’re just making it easy for people to say yes. You’re just giving them the bits and pieces, the info that they need in a succinct way so they can say yes or no.

Annie: Right. I know that as I evolve and as the business evolves, it’s really the business is evolving.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: That it is no longer really about trying to make more money off services. I am very pleased and satisfied with the service side of my work, but now about helping more people and getting on stages, being in podcast conversations, being on TV and radio shows, all the things that I’ve done, contributing to articles in magazines and newspapers. And I’m like, “Oh, we need Annie for this thing because Annie is the one that…”

That’s the thing that I struggle with. To be like, “Yeah, you want me on your podcast because I’m going to challenge the way that we think about thinking, we think about taking action, we think about making decisions.

It is truly a devastation to what we’re here to do to think that it all has to do with our thinking and that it’s about a sense of urgency, take the risk even if you’re not ready. Like yes, and. Yes, and. I have a huge community, beloved, sacred, I am deeply grateful for this. I have a really wide community of Indigenous women. I don’t identify as native, I do have native lineage, but it is a whole thing of colonized people and colonizers.

And I have a beautiful community, like I’ve been welcomed into the sisterhood by many indigenous women across the country. And it’s like that’s a whole other thing. It is a whole other thing. Native women who are, like so many women of color, there is this sense of extraordinary responsibility back to the actual reservation that they grew up on where their people are if they’ve left the rez and now they’re living in the city, or they’re going out to get to their PhD and they have a sense of responsibility to come back.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: And so I don’t take it lightly that so many amazing people are gravitating to what I’m saying, what I’m doing. I’m thinking of a woman, Pearl. Oh God beloved, she was in the second Culture Club cohort back in 2020.

And now I have people coming to me that are like, “I want to work with you because Pearl, she’s like a different person after working with you. She has become who she’s really meant to be.” I’m like what’s so cool she’s becoming every day. I love watching her and being able to see her inspire other people.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: Valentine, like this male identifying person of color, helping him realize back in the early days that he’s a highly sensitive person, like a bonafide HSP. Him emailing me like, “This is blowing my mind. Oh my God, I feel like 40 years of not feeling like it made sense. I made sense, now it makes sense. Oh my God, oh my God.” Like this whole community of women who are like 15 and 20 years older than me humbles me every single day.

Every call I get on, I’m like these women are finding the path for where they’re really, really meant to be. They’ve been living all these years and little old me is helping them to realize, to clear. And so it’s like, I love doing private work, and I want to talk about it more. About the power of the sacred sciences, the power of leaning on our ancestors, on leaning on ancestor us. I think about the ancestor that I want to be every single day.

Rachel: Mm-hmm, exactly. But if you’re pitching yourself to a newsroom, they have exactly five seconds to talk to you.

Annie: Yes.

Rachel: How do you say all of that in a much more succinct way, so that you can be broadcasting your message to more people, so more people can hear it and see it? What do you struggle with around that? Besides the packaging and the language feeling, because I understand what you’re saying. I remember there were people who were like, “I don’t want to identify as a coach because there’s so much crap in the coaching world.” And I’m like, there’s crap in every industry.

Annie: True.

Rachel: I mean and there’s people who are charlatans in every industry, right? It exists everywhere. But that doesn’t mean that you’re not here to do your work, right?

Annie: Right.

Rachel: And you can’t worry about what people are saying about the industry or whatever. Worry about what you are out there exuding and what you’re creating, and people will see what’s true. That’s what I believe.

Annie: Yeah.

Rachel: And if they don’t, I’m okay with it, right?

Annie: Right.

Rachel: So there are words, there are industries some of us don’t want to be associated with, I get that. But I think it’s just a thought in our head, right? The word package is bad, or the word package diminishes. And maybe you can say a different word, right? I would break out the thesaurus, literally, and be like, “Okay, how can I say what I do in a sexier way, or a way that feels good to me, that feels like it’s honoring the thing that I’m creating?”

But also recognizing that it’s sort of like we’re doing, we all are doing, I think a lot of us are doing divine work, right?

Annie: Yeah.

Rachel: And we need to be able to communicate it in a very earth driven way.

Annie: 100%.

Rachel: And it’s like we need to be able to work with this system that we have, right? That’s like, okay, the system is I’ve got a couple of sentences in an email to pitch myself or I’ve got a very short conversation with somebody who’s hearing about potentially buying my book, right? Or whatever it is. Having me on their stage and being able to say what is the thing that in 45 minutes on a stage, or in 30 minutes on a podcast, or in 200 pages in a book that I’m going to deliver?

What do you struggle with, with that? What comes up when you think about doing that?

Annie: I think because I’m thinking about it, praying about it, writing about it, blabbing about it constantly, that I can’t hear myself anymore.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: And so I’m like, is even what I’m saying resonating? Like you’re sitting here with me for the last 20 minutes, do you understand what I’m saying?

Rachel: I think I’m following. And I know you and I have context for your work, right? However, I do think we have to learn how to speak in sound bites, unfortunately.

Annie: Right.

Rachel: You know what I mean? And I’m not saying that we have to do it everywhere or all the time. And it’s like the soundbite is not for necessarily when you’re in your retreats doing deep work with people. But the soundbite is definitely for when you have a two minute segment, like I was on Good Morning America. And there’s all this prep, and there’s all these producer meetings in advance and all this stuff. And then the segment is two minutes. And it’s like that 120 seconds goes by real quick.

Annie: And you want to maximize them.

Rachel: Yeah, you’ve got to spit it out. And it’s so funny, it’s like the fewer words you say, the more prep it takes to say fewer words, right?

Annie: Yes.

Rachel: Because trust me, I have a lot to say. I’m a talker, okay? That’s what I got in trouble for in school as a kid.

Annie: Same.

Rachel: So many words, so many things to say. And it’s like, how can I make sure that I’m delivering a powerful message in a short period of time to the people who need to hear it? And also, too, we don’t have to be great at everything, right? And so maybe this is something that you just want to invest in somebody to help you do this.

Annie: Right.

Rachel: Have you thought about doing that?

Annie: I have. I’ve spoken to somebody you know, somebody you know well. I’m like, okay, when the time is right.

Rachel: Well, first of all, if you’re talking about Alexandra Franzen, is that who you’re thinking of?

Annie: Interesting, no, but yes. It’s so interesting that you said her name. So no, but yes. Also Robert and the thing that he’s doing.

Rachel: Yes. I think both of them are great because, one, I think Alex is, she’s a highly sensitive person, so I think she could relate to your work. She’s also a deep introvert and a big feeler, very sensitive, Cancer. So it’s just like all of those things that you mentioned about some of who your clients are, right?

Annie: Yeah.

Rachel: So she can relate to your work, but also it’s just kind of like maybe you don’t have to do that part of figuring out how to succinctly say. Maybe you need the thought partner that you are for so many people to help you pull out what are the bits? Give me the soundbites, help me make this succinct, right?

It’s the same thing for me, right? I struggle with it too because I think like, how can I distill it down? It’s like if you’re making a sauce and you’re like, I’m going to cook it, cook it, cook it, cook it until it’s a reduction, right? And it’s just the tiny little, that’s all that’s left and it’s very thin and there’s not much there yet. But it’s powerful, right?

That’s the thing, it’s like there’s a lot of flavor packed in that when I cook it all the way down. And that’s exactly what you’re doing with your message. You’re not taking the power away, but you’re just having the power hit people faster, right? And you really want your work to be something that a fifth grader, if they heard you describe it would be like, “Oh, my cousin needs that, my mama needs that, my sister needs that.” Right? You want it to be so easy for people to connect with.

And it’s not about making the work less, it’s about just communicating the entry point in, right? And so like I do VIP days, I do mastermind, I have one on ones in my mastermind, I do The Club, right? We do so much stuff, but I talk about The Club mainly because it’s kind of like that’s the entry point in. And then there we can talk about all this other stuff, right? It’s like, how can we get down to just what the folks who don’t know me yet, who might need to know me, need to hear? And how can I say it really simply?

Annie: Well, it’s interesting, so the very first thing I ever created, which was before I even started my business, I designed a journal for myself at a time when, oh my God, I was the director of a nonprofit thing. Oh God, it was a whole thing. I created a journal because I couldn’t find one that would hold all the things. I had my work stuff and my life stuff. And then what I wanted to do next, I was trying to figure out what I was going to become. And so I was like, I need to just create the thing for myself.

So I created a journal called Clarity Pages. And it’s now in its fifth year, its second edition, there’s all these different versions of it, two different versions of it. And I designed it literally to manage the day to day while moving goals forward, period.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: It was about decreasing my sense of overwhelm, like all the thoughts, all the thoughts, all the ideas, and like, oh my god, don’t forget to call my grandma. Oh, God, I’ve got to pick up my dry cleaning. Like the things that fall through the cracks when we’re trying to build something or get out of a job or whatever.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: And so Clarity Pages is the entryway, it’s almost like my version of The Club. I have the Women of Color Culture Club, but things are changing there, and they all know that. This offer within the journal is about finding possibility in the moments that matter most. The scary ones, the oh fuck, I can’t believe this is happening ones, or I really got to change things.

And sometimes the goal is healing. Sometimes the goal is reducing my anxiety, having less panic attacks this week, built-in tracker and everything. And so that journal, it’s like the OG back when it was just starting, before all this Annie had all the data, all the different clients, all the different people. Like that’s what it was about.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: And so if somebody is working with me privately in a retreat, or a small group retreat or whatever, they may not realize it but I’m walking them through that process.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: They’re just getting the spaciousness and the coaching with it, and the questions, and the pooling, but it’s about managing the day to day while moving our wants and dreams and goals forward.

Rachel: Yes. And did you feel like you could communicate that clearly in describing the journal?

Annie: Back then? Now? Yeah, I mean, that feels like that is what that journal does. And really, if we zoom up, that is also still what I do.

Rachel: Yeah.

Annie: I help people manage the day to day while moving their goals forward, but with a deep root in, multiple roots in heart.

Rachel: Okay, so I want to give you some feedback.

Rachel: Please.

Rachel: So the description that you just said, I help people manage the day to day while moving big goals forward, right? That is very powerful. That is very clear. Like, okay, this is something that you do.

And then here’s what I want to invite you to consider, that the brand can communicate that it’s heart centered. The brand can communicate that there’s emotion in it. That it’s about feeling, it’s not just being practical and saying I do this first and then I do this next, right? It’s not just that. And so I think we need to, there are some times we need words to communicate things, but other times it’s like a brand is all of those things. It’s imagery, it’s what you choose to talk about, it’s how you choose to communicate, right?

So how can you use visuals and the name of the company and just the branding around it to express the stuff that’s beyond that? How do you do it, right? So what people need to know is what do you do? But the how that you do it can come packaged in the brand, right? Like Hello seven, right? That’s a brand name that sort of suggests we have a big goal, right?

And we use different taglines like I help historically excluded people get money, right? That’s one thing that we say. We say closing the wealth gap one entrepreneur at a time, right? That’s another way that we express what we do. And when you land on my website, you see this picture of a diverse group of people, and that tells you something. That picture is communicating something, right? We’re standing in our power, we’re looking like bosses, right? That’s communicating.

So it’s like you don’t have to have it all in that one sentence, right? All of that will be layered on and you can trust that people are going to get that without the word.

Annie: Well, whether you realize it or not, you’re like reflecting back to me feeling over thinking.

Rachel: Yes, exactly.

Annie: For real, I mean, yeah, because a brand makes you feel something

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: Sandra from The Club, Nopalera founder, she sent an email recently that was like learning from water or something like that, and there was like all these pictures of water bottles. And it’s like each brand of water makes you feel a way.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: And you’re like, do I want to? Yeah, with just one quick glance. And so it is tapping back into the feeling.

Rachel: Yes, and it’s trusting that I can say these few words and trust that so much more is also being conveyed. How does that feel for you?

Annie: It feels right. It makes sense. And I think that what I have been struggling with is the fact that as I’ve grown, as the business has grown, I’m no longer just scrappy, figuring shit out, doing the fuck around. I know who I am. I know what I do. I know who I help. And that now requires a brand.

Rachel: Yes.

Annie: Like Mariposa Strategies does have a brand, people know it.

Rachel: Yes, we’re creating a brand, whether we think we’re creating a brand or not.

Annie: Right. And now it’s like, oh, I think the struggle is to take it to the next place. It requires the next level, the next place of people, the next place of thinking that I no longer have. Like I’m maxed out.

Rachel: Well, it also requires just committing. Committing to certain language, committing to these words, right? Committing to this visual and trusting that I’m going to commit to this.

And one of the things that we say when we talk about branding is like you want a brand that has legs. And what that means is it continues to evolve, it continues to walk up the mountain, right? And that brand can go with you, right? I started Hello Seven in 2018, 2017? I don’t know, it’s all a blur.

Annie: Really?

Rachel: Yes. And so that phrase, I’ve been an entrepreneur for 12 years, so I had a different business before that, and then moved it to Hello Seven. And when I created that, that was a long time ago and the visuals were different, the tagline might have been different, but the work was the same and the name was the same. And the name has continued to evolve and grow, right?

And so when we think about companies, you might want to look up, what are some companies that you admire that have been around for 30 or 50 years, right? And so it’s like we can just commit to the name and still trust that people are really smart and intelligent, and they’re going to get it. They’re going to get the vibe with less words, with less description, and they’re going to understand how you can support them with less, right? Like with less explanation.

It’s like try it. Just test it out. Try using that the next time you’re on a podcast, or having an appearance, or reaching a new audience, just try a tagline that’s simple that maybe even just describes that early journal. And see how that lands for people. I actually think that the less you say, you’ll probably bring more people in.

Annie: Absolutely. I completely agree. All the words, all the words. The words.

Rachel: Right, so you got back to this place of like it’s less words, but the right words that help people understand, okay, this is how you can help me. And they need to know on a really super practical base level before they’ll explore more. And that’s really the whole goal of your tagline or the name of your company, it’s just like piquing curiosity enough to then wade in.

And then they’ll get it in the wading in all of the other things. But I don’t have to explain to them all the things that I do for people, right? I just say, if your end goal is to make more money as a historically excluded person, great. I’m here to help you. You’re in the right place. And so then it’s like, okay, well, how can you help me? Well, here’s all the ways that you can find that out now, right? Now that you’re interested enough.

Annie: Totally.

Rachel: Yeah, and that soundbite can then be what you use to pitch yourself for all of these different stages you want to be on.

Annie: I was talking to another fellow Shmillie, Samara Bay, who we both know, beloved. I was telling her the other day I’m like, “I’m changing the world one sensitive person at a time.”

Rachel: Well, there you go. What a great way to put it.

Annie: She was like, “Oh.” I’m like, “That’s the thing.” And I love more than anything when I help people realize, not just how sensitive they are, but how it’s a motherfucking superpower.

Rachel: Right, exactly. Instead of seeing it as a detriment.

Annie: It is a strategy. Coupling it with their thinking brains, all the things that got them to where they are, all the things that they want to do. I’m like, oh, yeah.

Rachel: That’s it, right?

Annie: Yeah.

Rachel: So expressing that and saying why that’s important, that’s enough. And that’s all the soundbite you’re going to get anyway.

Annie: Right, yes. That’s enough to pique interest and say, “Yes, tell me more.” Awesome. Well, I think we did it.

Annie: Thank you, yes.

Rachel: And tell people where they can find you.

Annie: You can find me on my podcast, Courage Culture and Clarity. And where else, claritypages.com. My website is AnnieSanchez.co.

Rachel: Excellent, thank you for being here.

Annie: Thank you, Rachel.