060 How to Find a Director of Operations with Brittany Martin

Rachel: And what you are really hiring them for is to tell you, “No.” Because if you are a CEO or a founder chances are you have a million ideas a day and you want to implement all of them and that is not how you build a successful business.

So, even though you love this idea and you’re in love with it and want to roll around in it and make love to it today tomorrow you’ll be on to the next thing and the operations person who knows that is going to tell you, “No.” So, you are looking for someone who can say no to you.

Welcome to the Hello Seven Podcast. I'm your host, Rachel Rodgers, wife, mother to four children, a lover of Beyoncé, coffee drinker, and afro-wearer, and I just happen to be the CEO of a seven-figure business. I am on a mission to help every woman I meet become a millionaire. If you want to make more money, you are in the right place. Let's get it going.

Brittany: Let’s give it. This is how prez do it!

Rachel: I’m already recording and we’re keeping that in the episode. You guys, I’m sitting here cracking up laughing with my Director of Operations, or Operations Director. What do we call you?

Brittany: Well, our organizational chart says Director of Operations, but this outline specifically for this episode says Operations Director, so it’s interchangeable.

Rachel: It’s interchangeable.

Brittany: Listen, Papa Kriger always said, “Your job title doesn’t matter. They could call you a tube of toothpaste, but what are they paying you?”

Rachel: Hello! What is in the paycheck? I’m with it. Me and Papa Kriger we’re here, okay? We’re on the same wavelength. Also, I kind of like how Director of Operations, the acronym is DOO.

Brittany: Yeah, DOO.

Rachel: Not to be confused with BOO or POO.

Brittany: And the irony is the Director of Operations is supposed to do very little.

Rachel: That is ironic. OMG, I love it. Okay, let’s get into it. I’m going to do a proper introduction. So, today I’m sitting down with Brittany, who’s the Director of Operations at Hello Seven. Brittany has been with Hello Seven since January of 2018 when she was originally hired as an independent contractor to coach my clients and run our social media account and do a variety of other administrative things. Basically, I just kept giving shit to Brittany because she always got it done and was so incredibly reliable.

But we actually met before that, Brittany was a client of mine. She came to one of our Made retreats and we totally bonded, like we’re both Aquarius so we’re like on the same wavelength. We’ve known each other for about four years now and she’s been with Hello Seven for almost three years which is like 30 years in Internet years.

Brittany: At least.

Rachel: So, in February of 2019 she decided to close her own business and aligned fully with the mission and vision of Hello Seven and in the time that she’s been with Hello Seven she’s held probably every job. Like, literally every job that has – she’s almost like me. You know how the CEO has had every single job at the company. Basically, she has had every job from creating program content to writing our copy to running our marketing department to creatively directing film shoots and photo shoots. I mean, project managing the hell out of everything. She’s gotten so much done. So, for the past eight months Brittany has held the role of Director of Operations.

So, in this episode we’re going to talk about what exactly a Director of Operations can do in your company, how to find and hire this person, and what’s essential that you do to set both this person and your business up for success. So, that’s what we’re covering in today’s episode entitled How to Find a Director of Operations. Yay.

Brittany: Or for how to find an Operations Director.

Rachel: Yes, exactly. Either one, it doesn’t matter. So, let’s talk about what is a Director of Operations? What do they do? What do they handle in the business? What’s the between a Director of Operations and an Online Business Manager, for example? Because I think a lot of people think they’re the same and, “Ooh, I tried that. Didn’t work.” Cautionary tale coming up soon.

Brittany: But it was a learning experience for both of us because I was here for that and I watched and so, I think without that I wouldn’t have the perspective I have now for my role. I love this question. I think it’s so – listen, we asked our We Should All Be Millionaires members four questions about directors of operations and they asked the best questions. This is one of the ones that got me most excited because it is pretty nuanced, the difference between all of these different roles.

A director of operations is – it’s basically semantics in the difference between operations director, director of operations, COO, operations manager. The terms are all pretty interchangeable. So, a COO is typical at a much larger company and is going to come with a much larger salary. Also, experience level, typically a COO will have a really high level of experience in maybe finance or maybe HR. Maybe they were a hiring manager for a really long time or they were the CFO. My husband’s company their CFO is their COO which I think is really interesting.

Then you think about an EA or VA and that’s like a much smaller company. So, a DOO, a director of operations is somewhere in-between and no matter what in all of those roles the position handles the needs of the business. It’s just that the needs of the business grow. So, when you’re a really small business you have different needs. Not lower level, but a lower execution level or support level or even strategy level from that person. No matter what though, all those roles work very closely with the CEO.

Rachel: Yes, and you’re touching on something that I want to kind of address, too. You’re speaking to the hierarchy of this role, right? When you’re starting out your executive assistant, EA, or virtual assistant, VA, whichever one you call them that person is essentially your operations person. They’re the person that helps you show up and get things done in the business.

I like to think of it as like the CEO is coming up with the vision and saying, “This is the what,” and the operations person is saying, “How? How we going to get there, right? How we do it, right?” A little Montel Jordan Monday for you.

But I just want to say, depending on where you’re at in your business, that might be the roll that you actually need to hire is an executive assistant or a virtual assistant and that person might grow with you and become operations coordinator and then operations manager and then operations director and then from there they might be VP of operations or COO, eventually. Those are various titles that just speak to the company is getting bigger.

I will tell you it is a huge pet peeve of mine when you’ve got a very small company, maybe you have a couple hundred thousand dollars in revenue and you’ve got like 3 team members and one of them is the VP of whatever or the CFO or the COO or whatever and I’m just like, “There’s not a chief anything because there’s nothing to be chief of.”

Brittany: No. Listen –

Rachel: It’s too small. Let’s not do it with the lofty titles and I will tell you, this will bite you in the ass, because your team members when you’re hiring them and you hire them with these lofty titles they’re going to Google what does the Department of Labor say? What does a COO make? They’re going to see a COO salary tends to be pretty high, definitely nowhere near below six-figures, and so then they’re going to be like, “Well, I’m not making that,” and you’re going to be like, “Yeah, because I’m not even making that. This business doesn’t have enough revenue in it yet.”

So, don’t fluff up titles. I really hate that. If anything, shoot lower with the titles is my philosophy and I wonder if you feel differently about this Brittany, but if you’re hiring someone and you’re like, well, they could be the operations coordinator or they could be the operations manager. Hire them as operations coordinator and make them operations manager in 3 or 6 months or 12 months when they’ve proven themselves and they’re fucking killing it. You know?

I think we just get really excited about people and then we’re like, “Let’s give them this fancy ass title.” Five minutes later they’re quitting or they’re doing a shit job.

Brittany: Yeah, well, and too, I think that a lot of the fear around hiring and we’re kind straying into hiring right now, but a lot of the fear is, “This person is excellent. I’m so excited about them. I don’t want to give them something that’s going to be offensive and they won’t say yes.”

But if you think about our trajectory from when I came in, I was getting paid hourly and I was getting paid in my own business. So, I was pulling revenue from multiple different places. My income was coming from 7,000 different things, but I was just excited about what you were doing and I wanted to be a part of it. That was that buy-in. Very early on we built trust, we built buy-in, my skills increased. We learned what I was really excellent at, what I was competent at and I was able to grow.

I think that’s a philosophy here at Hello Seven, and I know it is because I tell people when I’m interviewing them and bringing them in that we are hiring you for a role. You’ll come in and you’re going to spend 90 days with us and we’ll see how things are going. Then, it might be that we discover you have a genius somewhere and we actually really want to deploy that genius.

So, your role might shift and change here at Hello Seven, but we’re bringing you in for XYZ, and that XYZ might be something that is a coordinator or an assistant role that could grow. This is something, I think it was either once again, Papa Kriger or my husband, these two guys who are always guiding me and giving me advice and I remember early on when – oh, it was the year mark when you offered me a full-time role and I was like, “Ah, I have to close my business.” It was a huge decision.

Basically, the guidance was well, “Brittany, you’re getting in on the ground floor of what you seem to believe is going to be an amazing company and you can grow with them.” That’s really how I like to think about when we’re hiring. Because we’ve grown, we’re already bigger, but we want people who want to grow with us and not every hire is forever. We kind of talked about that a lot recently, but we certainly want to bring in true believers and we want to pay them in an equitable way.

But this is all stemming from if you tell them, “We’re hiring. We’re bringing you in and you’re going to be the Director of Hiring and Recruiting.” Well, yeah, that’s going to come with some really hefty expectations from us and from them. It’s going to be – expectations, the root of resentment if they’re unmatched on either side people are going to be upset.

So, hiring and bringing team members in, give yourself permission to learn and grow with people. If you commit at that level and you don’t know this person from Bob and you’re like, “Come on in and be my Director of Operations. I just met you from a hiring process that was great. It was lengthy, we got to know each other, but three months from now maybe I’ll feel differently. Maybe you’ll feel differently.”

I tend to do this, go all around the world and come back to home base.

Rachel: No, I think it was super helpful and it reminded me of something that we tell our clients which I learned from a coach is don’t run out of future. You don’t want your clients to run out of future with you. So, for example, when you’re thinking about how long should somebody join the club, right? My hope is they’ll stay for three years and hit a million.

Then after that if they’re still here, awesome. I’m thrilled, but I don’t have that expectation. But it’s the same way with your team members, if you hire them at the top, top they have no place to grow with you so they’re going to look outside of your company to grow. But if you bring them in as an assistant and they can move to coordinator and then manager and they see that the company is growing and that their role and their leadership can grow with it then that’s very exciting for people.

Don’t assume that because somebody is an employee that they don’t want to grow. They want to grow just like entrepreneurs want to grow. It’s no different, so I love that you said that.

Okay, so we’ve said a lot here. Let’s talk a little bit about the online business manager role.

Brittany: Yes, very different. So, where I said that the other roles were really synonymous and it was just kind of level of commitment I think a OBM is typically someone who has a fair amount of marketing experience and they’re coming in to be a project manager.

So, a director of operations is meant to have a bit more expansive expertise on covering hiring, finance, KPIs, metrics, legal, all these different areas and an OBM is more focused and is meant to project manage whereas a director of operations is not meant to program manage – a director of operations is not meant to project manage which is a nuance we recently discovered.

Very recently I was the basic – well, I’m not going to say I was the one project manager on the team, but I was taking the lead on most of our projects.

Rachel: Yeah, you were like head project manager.

Brittany: Someone asked a question about what happens when you realize you’re the bottleneck? I was like, “Oh, I’m the bottleneck because if I am not in the room decisions aren’t being made.” Rachel, something that you have really, what’s the word I’m looking for?

Rachel: Instilled?

Brittany: Instilled, yeah, sure. I’m thinking of like when you coax someone along, like a child, you’re like, “Come with me. Come with me on this journey.”

Rachel: A little baby duck.

Brittany: We use a lot of duck and goose metaphors at Hello Seven. But something you told us was like I can’t be the only decisionmaker. I remember this very early on, very early on here at Hello Seven you were like, “You have to be a decisionmaker also because I’m tired, I’m making so many decisions. I have to download to you how I make decisions. So, I’m going to stop telling you what I do and instead I’m going to ask what you would you do? Then you respond and then I’ll let you know what I would do differently.”

In that way you have really curated a decision-making of Rachel Rodgers. I have a little Rachel Rodgers who sits on my shoulder and I’m like, “What would she do?” So, that’s actually what my role is now is to bring that to our team of leaders and honestly, I think this is the big difference between a director of operations and an OBM or even an operations manager is the leadership level.

So, we have other leaders on this team and we’re growing our leadership team right now because we need more decisionmakers. That’s something huge we realized in probably the past two months. We have had such expansive growth.

Rachel: Yes, for sure. I love what you said about online business managers because they tend to be hired to come in to help you launch things, to help you set up your CRM and your funnels and things like that, to handle customer service inquiries. They’re really trying to help you eliminate the barriers to capital.

Brittany: Yes.

Rachel: People give you money, we want to make it easier to take the money. So, that’s what the goal is and that’s mainly what they’re focused on. You will be in trouble if that person then becomes your operations director and doesn’t have the skill set or the strengths that enable them to handle those areas. Because marketing is one piece, but once you get marketing dialed in, believe it or not you will get to a place where marketing is dialed in.

I think that’s the thing. We always think, marketing is all we do and that’s the major focus. No, it’s not. Actually, delivering the product should be the major focus. Delivering the service or the product, whatever it is that you sell and how that’s done, that is a big part of the focus and the marketing just becomes one piece.

So, you think early on when you’re a couple hundred thousand or even when you hit a million marketing seems like the most important thing. It’s one important piece and it’s very important and we have an amazing marketing manager that I’m thrilled about who handles that for us, but is not the only thing that he’s handling, right?

Hiring the team, actually, is one of the most important pieces of growth at this point, so we need to make sure that customers are happy in our program, and we need to hire more people to continue to be able to serve the increased number of customers that we’re getting every single month.

An operations director who only is really focused on marketing is forgetting about all this other stuff. Building the team becomes the bottleneck. For us, we need to double the size of this team as quickly as we can in a way that doesn’t send us all into the crazy house. It can be crazy to add 15,000 people to the team at one time, it would be crazy to live without 15,000 people you desperately need.

So, I think you’re spot on that somebody who is an OBM and if you think about it too, they tend to build agencies, OBMs, and have other virtual assistants working under them, that model doesn’t necessarily neatly move into an in-house business. I did attempt to hire someone who’s an OBM, what had tons of experience, came highly recommended, and she lasted about 9 months, not even, I would say about 8 months she lasted with my business.

She said to me, towards the end when we both knew it was inevitable that she was not going to be with us much longer. She said to me, “This is very different than what I had imagined. Being an OBM it doesn’t feel like an operations director in-house is actually what I even want. And it was not similar to what I was doing before.” So, just know that somebody who was an OBM might be great for this role or might not.

Brittany: Yes.

Rachel: So, I would not just get someone who’s an online business manager and be like, “Great, let me hire you in-house because you’re an online business manager.” No, don’t do that. That doesn’t sound like a good idea.

Brittany: Yeah, it is interesting. We got a lot of questions, actually let me pull them up because there was a really good question that went so well with what you’re saying. It was really – well, what kind of person makes a good operations director or director of operations?

Rachel: Yes, this is such a good question, what kind of person makes a great operations director. Let’s talk about that because I think a lot of people want to know, they’re like, “I don’t even know who I’m looking for.” I remember feeling that way, too, two years ago when I started on this journey and realizing I really need an operations person.

So, that makes perfect sense. The way that we sort of measure personality strengths and all of that is we use StrengthsFinder, we use DiSC. Is there anything else we use, Brit?

Brittany: Not currently. We might start using Kolbe. I’m looking into Kolbe right now just because it’s a really good indicator also, and really thinking about it from a diverse perspective like having a diverse set of strengths and skills on the team, DiSC and StrengthsFinder give us a really great profile, but it’s missing some key components. Some people like to hire with the Enneagram. I don’t get the Enneagram, I’m like, I’m a number four, I think – no, a 1. I have no idea.

Rachel: I’m an 8, by the way.

Brittany: You’re an 8, okay. And I think it can be a really good way to know. I think with the Enneagram for me I’m like, “Don’t you pick your own number?” You read about it and then you’re like, “Oh yeah, I’m an – “

Rachel: Yeah! That is such an excellent point, Brit. I think what you’re saying, what I hear you saying is, have a diversity of what you use to sort of assess someone’s personality, and then the other thing, too, is like I almost look at it for validation, right? I look at my top strengths and then I look at my Kolbe, and then I look at my –

Brittany: DiSC?

Rachel: DiSC, like they’re all saying the same thing, so that tells me more about who I am and it makes it clear like, “Yep, that sounds right.” So, if you have several of them and they are coming out similarly and you’re really getting a picture of who this person is – that’s why we use them, right? Because the only other way to really know somebody like that is time. Being in a relationship with them over time and when you don’t have that benefit in the hiring process I think it’s really good to have several different personality assessments because then if they’re all coming out giving you a really clear picture of the kind of personality this person has then you’ll know what you’re dealing with.

Then, of course, you’re matching that with the interview and their work history and all of that.

Brittany: And you get data. It’s a datapoint or a datapoint, right? It lets you know, I’m having this feeling, I’m getting this sense. What is the data telling me? Is it matching up? Is it aligning? Is it not? If it’s not, what’s going on there? I think when it comes to strengths someone specifically ask what your strengths profile was and what mine was which I think is really interesting – we could also talk about DiSC because we use DiSC a lot. I have grown to love DiSC. I used to be very uncomfortable with it and then I learned more about it and I’m like, “Oh my gosh, this is so telling.”

It really is such an indicator of not only how you’re going to show up, but how you’re going to show up when you’re under pressure, which in a small business you’re going to be under pressure. So, we can talk about DiSC, too, but I know for my strengths, specifically speaking to a director of operations or someone in this role, my top two strengths are empathy and connectedness. Actually, I think, connectedness is number one, so connectedness and empathy.

I think being empathetic is imperative because, Rachel, you go through so many emotions in one day and actually one of the metrics that we measure. I’m sorry, not a metric, but one of the responsibilities of my role is to be a sounding board for you.

Rachel: Yes.

Brittany: So, if I were not empathetic and I was just like, “Oh my God, here she comes again. Here she comes again.” [inaudible] like connectedness really – there was also a question about the integrator and the visionary relationship which is not how we work. We don’t like where I’m an integrator, but I will say I am more connected to the team on a day-to-day basis and reading all the reports. That is really something I feel we have grown stronger in is I’m able to connect with the team and with you and connect all the dots and tell a story. Pulling in, people were asking about metrics dashboards.

All of those datapoints, so what the team members are saying, what the metrics are reporting, pulling that all together and then downloading that to you. Then, also being able to download to the team what you’re saying and what you’re feeling because the biggest risk – I’m not going to say the biggest because there are tons, but one of the biggest risks is as this company has grown you are off, you’re busy, you’re on The Drew Barrymore Show, you are recording podcasts, you’re writing your book, you’re doing photoshoots, you’re in New York City, you are in Charlotte, you’re all over the place and we’re in the day-to-day.

So, I lost my train of thought. Where was I going?

Rachel: I think what you were going to say, you said one of the biggest risks, were you talking about –

Brittany: Yes, the disconnect. So, the disconnect between you and the team and it’s not because you don’t want to be there every day it’s that you cannot. So, you have to be able to jump in, know what’s going on, and also to go back to the DiSC profile quickly, anyone who’s familiar with the DiSC Rachel is all D. She is D all day and a D personality, everyone who’s listening to this podcast knows like you are the queen of Hello Seven. You are. You come across as very commanding, that’s also one of your top strengths, command.

Rachel: My top strength is command that’s why I started laughing when you said yours was connectedness and empathy I’m like, that’s literally the opposite of me. You’re just hysterical.

Brittany: But that’s what works and what I really am trying to get at and I feel like I’ve jumped around to several points, is as the CEO of your company you have to look at your strengths and match that profile to you because my strengths aren’t necessarily going to be what you need in a director of operations or an EA.

For example, if I was the CEO of my company, I do not need another empathetic, connected person. We will just be like in our feelings all day, so you really have to look at your own strengths and you can’t really say what kind of person makes a good director of operations and categorically pull it out because I know tons of directors of operations and we are a very different group of people.

We’ve got the person who’s very down to business and probably really high S on the DiSC and maybe has a lot of C. Then there’s a director of operations who has a ton of D and works really well with a high I person like I am. So, you have to assess your own needs and then hire in that way which is why we use the DiSC and the Strengths Assessment, and we have a hiring rubric and we look at these fits.

Yes, you can take a job description and say these are the tasks you’re going to do, these are the roles you’re going to need to fulfill, but if you are being a sounding board for the CEO, well, you have to be able to be a sounding board for that CEO.

So, your sounding board, Rachel, is going to be very different than if I was the CEO.

Rachel: Yeah, if I was dealing with another person with high command we would just be yelling and arguing at each other all day. That would be a disaster, actually. So, I agree with that. We talk about that with looking for people on your team to sort of fill in your gaps, what are you weak at?

Brittany, I feel like one of the things I can always rely on you for is you can hold a lot of details and distill them down to the team or into a project plan so that they actually get captured and get done because otherwise I will just spit out ideas all freaking day-long and they don’t get captured and then they don’t get implemented.

Just so you guys know Brittany’s DiSC, Brittany is ISC so she’s pretty high in all three of those. I think, for sure, with an operations director you want somebody who has high C, or at least over 50% on C in the DiSC and that means that they’re a detail-oriented person.

For me, somebody who’s high DI and I would say probably there’s a good portion of entrepreneurs how there that are high D and high I. If you’re a high D and high I then you need somebody who has the opposite skill set of you which is high C.

I think ISC is great and Brittany is not the only ISC on our team, Suzie Istvan is also an ISC –

Brittany: She’s an ICS.

Rachel: ICS, yes, and she holds marketing and also, super reliable, holds a lot of details, has great ideas, is good at – when you have that I that’s related to influencing and talking to people and being able to connect with people. It’s really all about how you show up to do your role. You can lead with data, you could be someone who’s super high C and you lead with spreadsheets, and, “Here’s all this information I prepared for you.”

Or you could be someone who’s high I and you lead with connecting with that person and having conversations with them and that’s how you distill information. So, a lot of different scenarios can work. I think you really are just looking for someone who doesn’t have necessarily the same skill set that you have. There was something else I was going to say, too, about this role.

Brittany: It was like a really good tip.

Rachel: So, here’s a tip, when you are looking for this person – this is a tip that my friend, Susan Hyatt, gave me. It’s super valuable. Before you begin operations director-like search. Before you start searching for your operations person then just open up your journal and write down who is this dream person? Think about the kind of personality that you want them to have. What do you want your sounding board to look like? What do they value? What are they really good at? What skill sets are they bringing? What experience are they bringing?

Put together your little sort of profile of who that dream person is for you and then when you start going through the hiring process, when you have your top three candidates towards the end of the process go back to that journal and see does it match up? Because I think sometimes in the hiring process we can get swept away by different people’s profiles and think that that’s what we and we start to move away from what we actually need.

So, you know what you need. What do you need to come off of your plate? What do you need to be able to rely on this person to do? What skills do you want them to be good at? I think spending some time doing that – again, it’s typical advice from me, right? Go internal first. Then this external data and knowledge and all of that is valuable, but go internal first is what my recommendation would be.

Brittany: Okay, I’m going to say something that is so annoying, but what you just said is like the same guidance you hear when someone’s like, “Oh you’re looking for your life partner? Just make a list of all the things you’re looking for,” and then you can kind of go back to it, but honestly our team sometimes will call us Mom and Dad.

Like, “I got to go ask Mom.” I’m Mom, by the way. Dad will let you get away with stuff, but let me go see what Mom will say.”

Rachel: Exactly, and that’s the thing, too. You’re speaking to something that I think is really important. Once you have somebody in that role, be prepared to give away authority. Whoever holds all the authority and gets to control everything also gets the responsibility of everything.

So, if you as CEO and founder of the business can’t let go of control you’re going to be in trouble because you’re going to have to keep doing all the same things you’re doing now, and you never get to offload any part of your to-do list if no one can do anything without you.

I love that Mom and Dad thing because that’s kind of how you want to think about it, right? Let go of the authority. When you hire that person give them the authority, and this is true for every team member. Every team member should have some level of authority to make decisions in the role that they’re in, so that every single they’re not coming to you for, but for sure the operations person.

What you are really hiring them for is to tell you, “No.” Because if you’re a CEO or a founder chances are you have a million ideas a day and you want to implement all of them and that is not how you build a successful business. So, even though you love this idea and you’re in love with it and want to roll around in it and make love to it today, tomorrow you’ll be on to the next thing and the operations person who knows that is going to tell you, “No.”

Brittany: Yeah.

Rachel: You are looking for someone who can say no to you and be like, “No!” And almost hit you on the head with a newspaper and be like, “Stop that!”

Brittany: Listen, that speaks to the next thing I wanted to bring up is trust. So, we have worked very hard to build trust between us. We had trust inherently, I think, just because we connected and had a lot in common and all that, but I mean, there have been rough moments in our relationship where it’s like we’ve had to have some real serious talks where tears have fallen on both sides because just like that mom and dad conversation we are co-creating something with a group of other humans and that requires a ton of trust. For Rachel, I mean, I’m going to speak for you right now, but you have to be able to trust me. If you can’t trust me how can you go on vacation for an entire two weeks and then – which you have done in the past, and know that everything is going to be okay.

Rachel: I’ve gone on a whole maternity leave, so yes, I agree trust is huge. It’s because of that trust that you can trust that person has your best interest and the company’s best interest in mind when they tell you, “No.” So, I agree, I think it’s very important.

I think you just touched on another thing, if you’re looking for this type of role you do want somebody that you can click with and connect with and that you really feel comfortable talking to. This person is going to know your business. So, if you like to secretive and compartmentalize all parts of your life, this is one person in your life that’s going to know all your business and you want them to know all your business because they need that information as they’re figuring how are we going to execute this vision?

If they know you’re going through something personal they can take that into account and cover for that on the team, you know? So, you got to be able to share what you’re thinking, what’s frustrating you, all of that and part of the reason is if I’m frustrated by something or whatever, first of all, half the time in the past – we have much better reporting now, but in the past I’d be frustrated because I something is not happening, and I’m like, “Nothing is happening. I don’t see anyone talking about this. I don’t see anything being done about this. This is a mess. No one’s doing shit. I’m paying all these people not to work.”

Whatever, I go into whatever spiral and Brittany is like, “Well, actually let me present some facts to your feelings. Here are some facts that you do not know. Have you looked at the quarterly and saw all the things that have been checked off? Have you looked in teamwork? No, because you have no access because we don’t allow you in there.

“You actually don’t know what’s going on and you’re completely wrong,” and then I’m like, “Okay, good. I’m glad I’m wrong.”

Brittany: Which really speaks to two other things I definitely want to make sure we address which number one, for me, learning to say no to you as someone who has high D and command as your number one strength, that was hard. But we started probably after I’d been with you about a year. I remember, it was when we were marketing Made that was supposed to happen this year in France. I’m crying a little bit because that didn’t happen.

But we were sending out marketing emails and at the time I was helping my sister with her three girls and so I was being part-time nanny, full-time, I think at that time I was creative director, was I? I don’t remember.

Rachel: I don’t remember either.

Brittany: I don’t remember, but it was a lot and there were a lot of ideas coming your way, every day something new, and at a certain point I was just like, “Rachel, I can’t do this,” and what I learned was, “Okay, Rachel, yes, we can totally do that. If we do this then this has to give. That was really where I started to learn how to put up those protective boundaries for myself which have now served the team, right?

Team, if you’re listening, I know I’m not perfect at this and we’re still learning and growing and I think that’s a beautiful thing, but we get stronger at it every week and something that we just implemented in the past two weeks is daily alignment calls.

Rachel: Yes!

Brittany: Oh my gosh, life-changing.

Rachel: So good! I love it. So daily alignment calls is basically we get together for 20 to 30 minutes every single day, every morning just to say like, what’s on my mind, what’s on her mind, let’s talk about this week or what needs to get done and we’re just like on the same page. Because what would happen is we would have once a week three-hour calls.

Brittany: Or I would have a Google document with so many – and in fact, I still have that Google document and there are touch points on it that we do need to cover about what we’re able to do in those daily alignment calls is prioritize. What’s top of mind? Even that we’re refining.

We’re working on a process where our programs and our marketing teams will give me a report that these are the thing you need, the top things you need from Rachel. Which does not mean they don’t have connection to Rachel – in fact, Natalie has weekly calls. Those have actually been falling through the cracks recently because Rachel has been amplified so much recently.

So, a key takeaway is it is constantly evolving and adjusting every day as new, but we have these foundational pieces in place and when something stops working we immediately go, “Okay, hang on. It’s not us. You’re feeling annoyed. I’m feeling annoyed. It’s not actually what we think it is. It’s actually probably something very simple that we can just knock out and refine if we just meet, if we just send a quick Voxx, if I just pull a datapoint for you.”

There is no one metric that I’m going to report to Rachel and she’s going to be like, “This metric that I’m getting every week now solves all of my pain points. It might even bring up more fear.” If I’m telling you a number, like the turn number for our membership and you’re like, “What? That’s horrifying.” And I’m like, “No, it’s okay because this other datapoint.” So, we are building out that metrics dashboard, in fact, someone specifically asked about this so I am answering this person’s question. They asked specifically about our dashboard that we report on.

Right now, we have basically our quarterly plan which is counting all those things and we have an air table dashboard that’s doing metrics for our membership, but we’re building out a much more robust dashboard right now with our Systems Manager, Josh, who is incredible and it is beautiful, and it makes me so excited, but it gets so many numbers. Rachel has access, she logs in anytime she wants, but what we’re going to do is pull out the essential metrics, report those to her on a daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly basis.

So, on those varying points which ones does she want to know on a daily basis? What does she want to know on a weekly basis, monthly, quarterly? So, she never has to log in. Basically, when you hire your director of operations, your operations manager, your EA, your VA, whatever role it is that’s how you guys have to start thinking is like, “Okay, what do I need to know to alleviate my fear and allow you to pick that up? Because it’s probably not as scary to you because you’re able to look at it more objectively or from a different perspective.” And things that are terrifying to me aren’t scary to Rachel.

Someone asked, too about how we work together and if it’s like a strategic partnership or whatever it is, but I would say at this point we have come to a place, and this took almost three years, but we have come to a place where it is much more of a strategic partnership where I’m not by any means saying I am a partner in every choice we make, but –

Rachel: I don’t think that’s a stretch. I think that is accurate. Where we’re at is when I think of something that I want to do most likely the first thing I’m going to do is run it by Brittany and be like, “What do you think? Can we do this?” I always have to ask her, “Can we?” And the reason why is because she understands what is the capacity of our team to execute XYZ at any particular timeframe, right? Because everybody on the team has specific tasks they’re doing every day, every week, whatever. We all have a certain capacity.

If we’re all at capacity and we don’t have the capacity to take on another project, she’s going to tell me no, which is the right answer. It might be, “Yes, if you want to cancel this other thing that we talked about.” Or, “Yes, next quarter.” Or whatever, but it’s not yes right now. So, I do need to ask Brittany because she holds that information better than I can right now because like she said, I’m basically the face of the brand is a big part of my job right now as CEO, writing the book, and all of those things.

What I’m doing a lot of is elevating and bringing more value to the brand itself. So, that’s a big part of what I’m doing which means I’m not in all of the meetings that Brittany is in every day so I do need to ask you like, “Can we? Can we, Mom? Please!”

Brittany: Okay, well, let’s look at your wish list and see what we need to take off. It really is. Someone else asked this question, Rachel, that I think would be good to address right now. They asked if a programs director and an operations director are one in the same?

Rachel: Hell no!

Brittany: I know. So, I was trying to imagine, so guys, Natalie Miller is our Programs Director and what she’s holding is the membership and what’s beautiful about this is I no longer have to really think about delivery all that much. Whereas I used to be all up in delivery, like I was all over it. So, a programs director, basically, what you want to think of when you’re building out your team of leaders, so you’re going to want to have somebody who’s over marketing, somebody who’s over whatever your program delivery is or product delivery, whatever that is. We now have Josh who over systems, and he is reporting to me. He’s like, “Hey, we’ve got an issue with Ontraport,” or, “Hey, can I buy this thing?” And, “Hey, the security over here,” so from a visionary/integrator perspective if we are looking at a organizational chart it would be visionary, integrator, and then from that integrator we had everybody coming off, all those leaders.

We tried that for a minute because we were like, “Rachel has no time, so let’s just have everybody report to Brittany,” and we recently – we were like, “This is no longer working.” Number one, too many people are reporting to me, and I can’t hold all of these people and be effective. Also, Rachel and those leaders need to have a direct line of communication. It’s very important that – especially at this point, Rachel and Natalie are talking and we just really went back I think last week, we were like, “We need to have Natalie start reporting back to Rachel.”

And it’s not because I can’t be effective in communicating the vision from Rachel to Natalie, but it’s because of that trust, the same trust that I need to have with Rachel other team members – we need to make sure that is constantly, basically a well that is being refilled and coaxed.

Rachel: I totally agree. I was just going to say one of the things, too about that visionary integrator thing that a lot of people talk about. I tried this with my former operations director and what I realize is that becomes a very weak point in your business. If you think about your organizational chart and you’re at the top as CEO and then you’ve got a COO or operations director, somebody in that role and then leaders that all report to the COO, or the operations director.

That operations director is holding the entire business and it’s probably too much. If you think about it as a CEO you were trying to get out of holding everything. That’s exhausting. That’s why you hired an operations person and now you’ve passed on that same level of stress to that operations person. That is not going to last for very long. So, I’m not a big fan of that whole visionary-integrator thing as I understand it. I’ve read parts of the books and I’ve talked to a lot of people who have done and, again, I’ve tried it myself and I think that it makes your organization weak because if that operations director cracks now the whole thing floods, right? Because you don’t have your own relationship as CEO with all of your leaders in the various departments and that structure I really don’t like.

So, I think it’s important that your operations director is not in charge of every single thing that has to happen in the business. They have their departments that they’re sort of like leading and they’re also sort of the conscience of the team and making sure everyone on the team is okay, and making sure we need to hire. A big part of it is being in charge of hiring but it’s also being in charge of the quarterly plan, and the how in saying, “There’s too much crap on the quarterly plan. We’re not going to try to get all of that done this quarter. What do you want to cut? We’ve got cut something.”

Those are the things that I think are really important for an operations director to be in charge of and I think the operations director really needs to not be doing a bunch of stuff. So, you need people that work – your operations director needs an assistant. They can’t be doing all of the things. There’s got to be somebody who works underneath them that is helping them execute the operations type stuff. I think that’s also an important piece of it.

Brittany: That’s what I was trying to speak to, and thank you for the words that you put it into because I was having trouble getting to the gist of what I was saying, but it is like your operations department in that integrator formula which may work for some folks, it might. It’s as though I am above these other roles, where it’s really more like we’re aligned and working together and we have to be because as an operations person just any role within operations I really feel you are an octopus and you’re putting your arms, your 8 million legs all over these different areas and just making sure everything is connecting, and energy is flowing. When energy stops flowing that’s when you realize, “Okay, there is a bottleneck here, what’s going on?”

Rachel: Yeah.

Brittany: It’s easier to detect when you’re not overloaded and I was – there was a point Rachel and I got on a call and I was like, “I can’t. I’m in meetings all day. I’m not getting – I don’t have time to get anything done.” Someone did ask what my day-to-day is like and I will say I spend most of my day on calls with various team members, Voxxing, but I’m also getting things done.

So, there are like little pockets of time and we’ve really had to be like, “Okay, Brittany, no more making type forms. What are you doing making a type form? Get out of there.” There have been moments where I am doing something and I’m like, “I’m not supposed to be doing this.” But we also are going through expansive growth right now, so it really is an all hands on deck situation right now, but for my day-to-day my metrics and milestones, I mean, I am preparing for all of our intentional tag ups which is when we come together and look at data, look at what’s going on in the company together and those happen at various levels between me and the team, between each team and their own department. We have sinks interdepartmentally and then also, Rachel and I, obviously, are doing those daily alignment calls, and then we have leadership intentional tag-ups as well.

Then, we have planning calls that can go anywhere from two to four hours. So, last week we planned Q4 and it was a two-part, four-hour meeting, so we did one part one day, one part the other day and then Rachel and I did a download afterwards that we actually have to finish. So, I spend a lot of time downloading the vision from not just Rachel but the team.

I go, okay, so before that quarterly planning I probably spent four hours on calls with different members of the team being like, “What’s your vision for Q4? What do you most want to get done?” And then also, looking at the metrics, where are we right now? Where were we last quarter?”

So, it is a lot of looking at metrics which I honestly used to think I hated, it turns out I love it I just didn’t know that what I was doing was looking at metrics because I used to work in banking. I used to work in hedge funds and so that was boring to me. Those numbers were very boring because I didn’t get to tell a story.

Now, it’s story-telling time, right? In every job I’ve ever had I have always made a handbook of how to do that job. So, now looking back –

Rachel: First of all, here’s your first sign that you’ve got a good operations director, they make a handbook. Because I have never made a handbook in my life.

Brittany: I never thought, guys, I went to school – listen, if you’re going to hire by someone’s resume and their college degrees, don’t do it. Because I went to school for interior design because I was like, “I want to do art,” and my parents said, “No, pick a career.” I was like, “Fine, I’ll do interior design.” Then, I had a quarter-life crisis and went back to school for musical theater and then I moved to New York and was an actress for a few years.

So, I have this weird, mixed background that led me to think I was a very creative person and could not do these more hard, left brained skills. So, the role of an operations director, even an EA, it has to be creative. You have to be creative about problem solving, empathetic, be able to look at the big picture and like zoom out and then zoom in and then zoom out again and then zoom in a little closer.

My day-to-day is never the same. It’s never boring. Rachel is also a quick start, so my day usually begins with a box or some ideas from Rachel. It’s true.

Rachel: That she has to say no to.

Brittany: Yes. And we’re navigating that dance, too, right? Rachel, we can edit this out if you don’t feel comfortable with me sharing what I’m about to say, but recently Rachel went into Slack and was plopping ideas in a bunch of different Slack channels, and what she doesn’t realize is the team is on a different train than she is.

So, she is going light-speed on a train and our team is going on a train that’s like stopping at every station. Whereas her if we were in New York it would be the express train, right, versus the one making the local stops. So, she’s going express and she’s like dropping ideas. She’s like, “Here you go, guys.” Everyone else is like, “Whoa, wait, hang on. This is future thinking and I’m in today.”

So, those ideas if – this is where visionary-integrator does make sense to me because you do have to have a one-stop that you download those ideas to and then we go, “Okay, you just downloaded 20 ideas. We can do two of them. So, let’s pick the two we’re going to do. What’s going to move the needle most effectively? And, in fact, we’re not going to decide right now. Let’s look at the data. Let’s look at what has historically worked and what hasn’t. Let’s look at the future. What do we have planned in addition to these 20 things? Then, let’s look at the quarterly plan that the entire leadership team has put together and then we choose.”

Rachel: So, what she’s saying is that she’s essentially a wet blanket on my ideas.

Brittany: A big old wet blanket.

Rachel: Actually, let’s look at facts and figures and not whatever you’re dreaming up today.

Brittany: But I don’t actually say that to you, right?

Rachel: No, you don’t, and I do want to be clear. I’m totally joking. First of all, let’s be honest, CEOs, we need a wet blanket. I coach a lot of y’all and a lot of y’all need to shut it down, right? You have a new idea every day and you think they need to be implemented and actually implementing 17 different ideas at the same time is why you haven’t reached your financial goals.

That’s why you need someone to tell you no, but I love that you’re highlighting how much we rely on data and how much time we take to plan the quarter. We’re not just throwing up a bunch of things and saying, “These are the projects we’re going to do. Fine, cool, next,” right?

The other thing, too, is we have an internal rule once we’ve decided on the quarterly plan this is why we take the time to say, “Where are we at now with these projects? What do we want to commit to going forward? Is this too much? Is any one team member holding too many projects?” Because each project has to have somebody who’s in charge of it, right?

Also, too, “Rachel, once we commit to this quarterly plan you don’t get to add anything else, so make sure you’re good with it because after this – this is your idea time. Now it’s over.”

Brittany: Can we just take a few moments to reflect on the mess that Q3 was though? Because we planned Q3 at the end of Q2 and anyone who’s listening you might remember that we had a million-dollar month and we had that million-dollar month after we had already planned Q3. So, Q3 was a huge education for us and it was painful in a lot of ways because we had a train on the tracks – I keep using train metaphors, I swear I don’t do this normally, but anyway –

Rachel: You a conductor.

Brittany: I am the conductor of the train. Sometimes I’m stuck in the caboose. But we’ve had all these plans and we had set a revenue goal that was like no longer – I’m going to say it wasn’t realistic anymore because it was too low. We had expanded, we had brought in all these new members. You know what happens when you bring in new members? What, Rachel?

Rachel: You have more work?

Brittany: You have to support them.

Rachel: I was like, “I don’t know, what happens? You dance?”

Brittany: You do a happy dance and then you go, “Oh crap, our team is too small.” We spent Q3 being like, “Okay, we have to hire all these people,” and it was painful, right? We were doing a lot of things. The team was spread thin but we got it done and we had to reprioritize and that was when we really realized, “Okay, this is what we capture on the quarterly plan because we planned this quarter in Q2. We pivoted it as best we could to capture it correctly, but we didn’t really, and so we added another tab that was, “What are we working on in addition?” Just so we could capture it so that when we got to the end of the quarter and we had only accomplished 40%, 30% of that quarterly plan we really could see why because we were very effective.

I think Q3 was one of our best quarters to date. I mean, a lot got done.

Rachel: Oh my God, that challenge, the 10K in 10 days challenge was amazing. There was a lot of great stuff accomplished. I finished my book.

Brittany: Oh wait, it’s not even done yet, Rachel. I realize we’re talking about it in hindsight, we still have two weeks left.

Rachel: A week or two.

Brittany: Yeah, wild.

Rachel: Right, we’re doing this retreat this week, so yeah, even though for us even though it was a challenging quarter that just means that in terms of the team communication and alignment, I think that’s what the challenge was and what you’re pointing out is what I say all the time. When you have a really successful month, you’re going to break your business.

If you have a huge success in any one part of your business, you’re going to break it and then you’re going to have to rebuild. So, we were having 230, 240K months on the other side of that million-dollar month, then we had the million-dollar month and then we were like, “Okay, what is our regular revenue now?”

We have no idea once we have this million-dollar month and then our regular revenue jumped like more than double on a monthly basis, so we needed to – it’s almost like we had this big, high, exciting moment and then we had to come down from that and collect some data before we knew how to even plan anymore for this business.

Now, we’re like, “Oh, so we came into this year running a two-million-dollar business and we’re leaving it running a five-million-dollar business which is much bigger,” you guys, that is a big jump.

Brittany: Yeah, and two, I keep reminding Rachel, our goal for this year, number one, our out loud goal because we always have a secret goal, but our out loud goal was two million which is what we made last year, but easier. We wanted to make the same money, but easier. Our secret goal was three million. So, we not only surpassed our secret goal, but we did our out loud goal times two and we did that two million, well we did one of them in a month, so it was easier, right?

I think what we’re saying here, Rachel, and feel free to conjecture and summarize in your own words, but what we’re saying here is, your business is going to be constantly evolving, there is always going to be pain somewhere because if there is no pain, you’re bored and you’re not growing.

Rachel: Yes.

Brittany: And that pain is going to teach you – I would not trade what happened this year because if you remember in this introduction Rachel said I had been in this role for 8 months. Now, that doesn’t mean that I wasn’t already doing a lot of the elements of this role prior to because the reason I took this role on was we were like, “Oh shit, Brittany, you’re the Director of Operations.”

Rachel: Exactly, it’s like we had this ah-ha moment where we were like, “Oh duh,” and I had hired someone outside of the business to do this role and then I was like, “Oh my God, this person has been staring me in the face this whole time, what a dummy.”

Brittany: I wasn’t ready, right?

Rachel: I don’t think either of us were ready and we had just thought that the geniuses outside, we don’t have it. It must be somewhere out there, let’s go find it. Then, we realize actually we have that genius. And the thing, too, is you don’t have to hire someone with 10 years of experience, and in fact, if you do they’ll be bored because your business is too small to keep them excited.

So, somebody who’s truly committed to the mission and has the skill set and is willing to learn and also, by the way, pay for training for your team members because that also helps and that can help you – like, Brittany came to me recently and was like, “I really want to do this training,” and I was like, “Meh, do you really need that? I don’t know. I’m not impressed.” And she’s like, “I want to do it!” I was like, “Okay, here’s the money. Do this training.” I’m like, “What a dumbass.”

If somebody is coming to me and saying, “I love this business and I love my job so much that I want to do this training, so I can get better at it.” Who the hell am I to – write that check, people. Write that check and let that person get even better at what they’re doing.

So, pay for training for your team, especially your leaders. If they want to do training, give it to them and trust that like, if you’ve got the skill set and you’re committed to the mission, those two things are really what you need in an operations director.

You don’t need them to have 10 years of experience taking a business from 500,000 to 3 million or whatever the trajectory is because I thought I need someone who knows how to take a business from one million to five million. Guess who knows how to take a business from one million to five million? These two people who have been here this whole time.

You know what I mean? And I thought I needed somebody else, no. Like, we know what to do. So, I think just trust yourself in your own skills and then find that person that you trust and you really do need to trust them. Like, we are friends. We’re not just colleagues or co-workers, we’re actually friends. We actually really trust each other. We actually like hanging out with each other. We actually have to force each other to get off of meetings so we can go do other things because we just want to talk about business all day long. So, those are the things that I think you’re looking for.

Brittany: I think, too, something to speak to, one of the questions was how fully documented were my responsibilities before I took them on? They were not. I have documented them all. I am creating this role and also delegating it as I go. I have been doing that since day one which is how we knew I was the right person for this role because I made – I had basically a handbook for how to do my job for every position I was in because I was so eager to get it off my plate.

I’m a learner, also, that’s in my top strengths and so I am constantly looking to do something else, and I’m going to get bored if I don’t have a challenge and something to learn. So, I’m not saying you need to look for someone who has learner in their strengths profile, but if you don’t have some things documented, number one, maybe start documenting some of the things that you’re doing that you want to get off of your plate.

But also, put that in your job description. You are going to create the process and then you will hire someone who’s excited about that. Like, someone who wants to do that. We put that in almost every job description. You will take the processes we have in place and you will come in and bring your own genius because we need more people who want to come in and create process so that they can go on vacation or maternity leave or paternity leave or take time off to move or whatever it is and their job is going to be handled and they can be confidently out of office and also they can grow in their role because that’s how we roll. Roll and role, but that’s how we roll, right?

If you want to up-level in this company, well, you got to replace yourself first and once that person is in your role and you’ve delegated to them and you’ve trained them and you’ve onboarded them then you can up-level which I was doing the director of operations and then Rachel and I were sharing directing marketing also for the past 8 months.

So, it’s really only in the past month that I’ve been able to fully focus on this role and thank God for Suzie coming in, our Marketing Manager who is killing it.

Rachel: Bomb.com.

Brittany: Yes.

Rachel: Oh my God, she is slayage. Yeah, so I think if I was to summarize the operations director and what you hold I feel like you are in charge of – I think of Natalie, our Program Director as in charge of our coaches. I feel like you’re in charge of our Project Managers that work in the business in each department.

Brittany: That’s right.

Rachel: That’s a big part of it. Also, team communication. That becomes an issue. Once you can’t all fit in a car, you need to communicate some process. You can’t assume that everyone knows what you know or like, I have a conversation with Brittany and now everybody else knows. No. We still got to make sure that everybody on the team knows what’s going on and what the plan is.

So, managing communication between the team and making sure we’re all on the same page is a part of that. Sort of overviewing, looking at the metrics and saying, “These key KPIs, are we meeting them and if not, why?” And talking about it, that’s another big piece.

Then, HR and managing the team and ensuring that we’re building the team that we need to. When someone’s getting overloaded and we see them working afterhours all the time we’re like, “You need to do a time study. What’s happening? We need you to not be working late at night because you’re going to burn out.” So, I think those really describe your job, Brit.

Brittany: I think we were going to upload the job description or even my document that outlines my day-to-day, but I mean that’s exactly what it says. It says you’re in charge of the infrastructure and building a team of believers who are going after our goals. When people ask, “What are your metrics? What are you tracking for the success of your job?” Honestly, we’re building it out right now, but we are building things to allow the team to let Rachel know how well I’m doing, right?

So, the team is going to tell Rachel. Even team sustainability, the longevity of team members, the effectiveness of team members, all of those things are what I’m paying attention to, what I’m focused on, also the financials, making sure that our revenue is growing in lock-step with our expense. So, I do the monthly metrics.

Well, actually, that’s not true. Our Operations Assistant fills out the monthly metrics and I review them and then Rachel’s looking at that, too, and I think always probably will be because you love that stuff. But all of those things are really where I am focused, checking the revenue, that metrics dashboard we talked about, like I’m looking at that.

Rachel: I think what you’re doing is building process. You’re building process and then you’re hiring people to run the process. So, that’s a big part of it as well.

Brittany: Yeah.

Rachel: So, we got to run because we got jobs to do, so you can download our job description for hiring an operations director. So, see the link in the show notes to get yours and I hope you enjoyed this episode and if you really loved it let us know because maybe Brittany will join us again. We can talk about some aspects of running a 5 million-dollar business now, and who knows next time you talk to us we might be running a 10-million-dollar business. Life is exciting.

Brittany: Let’s just claim that one.

Rachel: Yes, oh my God, it’s been a crazy five months and a wonderful five months as well.

Brittany: Well, thank you for having me. This was super fun. I was really scared when Suzie suggested it, I was like, “I don’t – what? No.” But it was very fun and I appreciate all the questions that we had thrown our way. This is one of my favorite podcasts. I can’t wait to not listen to this episode so I don’t have to hear it.

Rachel: Listen, I never listen to myself. Once it’s recorded I’m like, “It’s out in the world. Do what you will with it, I will never watch it again.”

Brittany: That’s so Johnny Depp. That’s how Johnny Depp is with all his movies.

Rachel: Oh really?

Brittany: Oh yeah, he won’t watch them, so you and Johnny Depp are so alike.

Rachel: I don’t know if that’s a good or bad thing. I think it’s probably bad because I think he might be a sexist and some other shit. Anyway, that part I do like. I did love him in the ‘80s though, I’m not going to lie.

All right, you guys. That’s a wrap. I hope this was inspiring. I hope it inspires you to go hire your executive assistant and if you’re running a larger business, operations manager or operations director and trust that that unicorn person is out there and use our job description to download it which you can find in the show notes. Bye, guys.

Brittany: Bye!

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